Kia Forte Turbo Forum banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It's cold out. Dash says 32 (outside temp).

I let it drop to idle before i go, but not operating temp.

Temp goes to 30 (outside temp), no biggy.

Down the road, it hits operating temp eventually. Easy shifting, nothing over 2500.

Turn heater on, good heat, nothing out of the ordinary. Come to my first stop, turn, begin to accelerate, nothing crazy. Engine temp gauge drops to below, 1/4. Wtf. Heater off. Temp comes back up to operating temp, slowly.

I get where I'm going. Everything seems fine. Car idling normal. Heater back on. Few seconds later, i can see the temp start to drop.


I've never seen this before, on any car.

Any ideas?

Edited for clarity
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
981 Posts
Nothing to worry about, mine does the same thing and only when running the heat. There are two things happening on mine when the heat comes on (1) it cycles the a/c compressor and (2) when the compressor is on the cooling fan is on low. When it is rather cool outside just the fan coming on low is enough to cool the radiator to the point when the thermostat opens to circulate coolant it is cold enough to drop the temp gauge. You should also be able to notice the heat blowing out the vents will also get cool (20-30° cooler) for about 30 sec then start warming back up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Nothing to worry about, mine does the same thing and only when running the heat. There are two things happening on mine when the heat comes on (1) it cycles the a/c compressor and (2) when the compressor is on the cooling fan is on low. When it is rather cool outside just the fan coming on low is enough to cool the radiator to the point when the thermostat opens to circulate coolant it is cold enough to drop the temp gauge. You should also be able to notice the heat blowing out the vents will also get cool (20-30° cooler) for about 30 sec then start warming back up.
Makes sense.

I've never even heard of this happening before.

I guess that also explains why the car will warm up to operating temp quicker when i don't turn the heater on

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
I agree with Playwithmymind, its been -20 F where I live the past few days and if I run the heat wide open or even on 3 it wont warm up even when I'm going down the road 30 or 40. But once I get to full op temp then ill crack it to 4, it'll cool down a little bit with wide open fan but still hot. However when its this cold I haven't had good heat at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
445 Posts
This engine IS susceptible to big swings before totally warmed up. I've been 3/8 warm and kick on the fan to 4 and it drops back to below a 1/4 until a few minutes later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,697 Posts
I observe same thing.

Actually, without heat on, I noticed a long warm up time. Weird thing is how the temperature goes up.

Chilly day, say about -2 C outside. In garage I may have about +7 C. Start the car, coolant is at +5 C. Five seconds later I start driving. Gently.

Coolant warms up very quickly reaching about +50 C in short time. Then it slows down. It will go to 72 or near still in good time, but then reaching full operating temperature is a disaster.
With no heat on it may take overall about 4 miles of driving to reach 80 C. Basically, the first 1.5 miles I get 65 C, another 2.5 miles the missing 15 C to heat 80 C (operating temperature).

That is insane. I can't imagine how it would work on -20 C days when I DO need the heat.


Does anyone have specification of the thermostat and/or cooling system? Is there any bypass that may cause so long warm up time?


I had 2009 Elantra in which was similar thing. Thermostat would open at 80 C and close at 75 C - I was told normal. Then I found a replacement that would open at 85 C - that made a huge difference. Not only oil was cleaner (less condensation), but it would warm up faster (less "bleed" due to smaller bleed valve) and heat was hotter.
I was wondering of same thing here... but first I must know specs of the cooling system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
633 Posts
The heat is a wee bit slow I find, but the heated seat works very fast which kinda makes up for it for me.

We've had a couple -25 days but on one -30 day with -45 windchill -50 (coldest day of the year) even after idling for 10 mins, I hardly had heat after another 20 mins of driving.

Clutch fluid felt like molasses the whole time too.

Now my 06 RAV4 has the best heat out of every vehicle I've owned except my 02 Dakota.... Miss that thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,697 Posts
It simply seems like the heat is being lost somewhere... slow leak in thermostat?

Does anyone have access to KGIS (kiatechinfo) to get details on cooling system?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I've noticed this also. I've had cold days (close to freezing) where the car would warm up to operating temp, i turn heat on, and the next turn I've lost about 40 degrees f from the system until i cut heat off. It's repeatable.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Mine warms up really slow, ive let it idle for 20 min in -10 f and its maybe thinking about moving the needle. So with these cars its gotta be normal. just drive easy and itll get to temp in a few miles. Also I have let it idle until its warmed up close to temp that takes about 30 minutes if its below 0 f. IDK if itll ever get to temp at 20 below I wasn't going to wait that long. Besides we have had the discussion on here whether its better to let it idle for a few minutes or just drive it easy when cold. I personally only let it idle for like 5 minutes when its really cold out just until the tac drops. So far its been ok for me to do this and I get heat the fastest. IMO...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,697 Posts
So I have a bit more info for this topic.
I got access to Veloster Turbo repair manual - from HMA service (equivalent of KGIS).
Thermostat is rated, as expected, 82 C opening, fully open at 95 C. Since engines are same, I assume many parts can be compared and carried over.

Would be nice to have someone here with access to KGIS for comparison.

Anyway, the other part is the scaling of temp gauge.
The needle would not move from "below cold" region until engine started reaching temperature of 58 C (based on ScanGaugeII reading through OBD2 via ECU). At this point the needle started going up very quickly reaching the first "quarter" at 65 C and getting to operating temperature region at 72 C.
And here is the problem - operating temperature is 82 C. Needle got there at 72 C so it is very hard to troubleshoot true over-cooling or overheating issues...

Driving conditions - steady speeds at 40-50 MPH
Other issues are - after 1.9 miles I reached 60 C (starting temp 5 C).
Next 1.1 miles to get to 72 C, to finally at 4.2 miles reaching 80 C.
Summarizing.
distance/temperature
0 - 5 C
0.8 - 40 C
1.9 - 60 C
3.0 - 72 C
4.2 - 80 C

See the graph

coolant forte5.jpg

Basically what it says is that the first mile increases temperature by about 45 degrees, while the last mile barely 6.7 degree... that suggests me some weird setup here. I must dig in more. Only if I had the info...
 
  • Like
Reactions: CrazyFritter

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
What is the actual operating temperature of this engine in the gauge ? Ever vehicle I have had prior to my sx was exactly half of the total gauge value. My sx when fully warmed up is 1 bar/block lower than half. Is this normal or is my engine over cooling ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,697 Posts
Operating temperature appears to be 82 C. The cluster gauge stays in this region. This is normal. Old days the gauge would go up and down as the engine gets hotter, but nowadays, due to many complaints from uneducated drivers, the gauges are calibrated in such way that the needle stays dead between just below operating temperature through a few degrees past max opening temperature (fan will kick on on the radiator) of the thermostat. Therefore, you will not really see the overheating coming...

From what I saw here (all temps given in Celsius as I use metric system) the gauge starts moving at about 45-55 C (the first section) and reaches the "dead spot" at about 72-75 C. It stays there for sure until 96 C. That's the max I could record. A few more degrees, 105 C and above, is overheating. I know that it would move up, but that would be very quick movement.

Gauges in same model clusters can be calibrated slightly different (I had a cluster replaced in my 2007 KIA Rondo and the temp was a bit higher...).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
This happened to me. Was sitting in traffic. But it's not even hot outside. 5 degrees.
I limped it home, the temps went down once I was moving but wtf. I'm guessing I'll have to change the fluid now. No way it's any good.

Had an oil change done at the dealer yesterday, other then that... Nothing's changed and this has never happened before.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,697 Posts
Fluid will be fine. It can handle more than that.
I would rather check it next day for low fluid (mine was below minimum when I bought it).
Also, check the radiator fan. What I dislike in this one is that the fan is kind of hard to turn. It does not spin freely, there is some resistance. It never sounds good to me... all motors should spin freely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
981 Posts
This happened to me. Was sitting in traffic. But it's not even hot outside. 5 degrees.
I limped it home, the temps went down once I was moving but wtf. I'm guessing I'll have to change the fluid now. No way it's any good.

Had an oil change done at the dealer yesterday, other then that... Nothing's changed and this has never happened before.
Check the connectors below the BOV solenoid, the piece mounted to the fan shroud is the variable speed module for the cooling fan. Another thing to try is turn on the A/C and it should also cycle the fan on to pull air through the condenser.

Also, check the radiator fan. What I dislike in this one is that the fan is kind of hard to turn. It does not spin freely, there is some resistance. It never sounds good to me... all motors should spin freely.
DC motors do have resistance from the polarity of the permanent magnets attracting the steel in the armature as it is turned. Even the smallest CPU fan in your computer will have resistance, if it didn't have resistance I would be worried.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bryanwolfe5

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Check the connectors below the BOV solenoid, the piece mounted to the fan shroud is the variable speed module for the cooling fan. Another thing to try is turn on the A/C and it should also cycle the fan on to pull air through the condenser.

Just checked the 2 connectors. Top one was plugged in. The lower connector was basically unplugged. When I pushed it I felt it move and heard/felt the "click" sound of it connecting. Ill keep an eye on my coolant temp and see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,697 Posts
DC motors do have resistance from the polarity of the permanent magnets attracting the steel in the armature as it is turned. Even the smallest CPU fan in your computer will have resistance, if it didn't have resistance I would be worried.
You went too far with reading between lines... :D Of course I would expect resistance. I meant that the fan seems to have too much of resistance. It seems like something is really holding it tight. Bearing was very tight or such. Basically you push it and it should rotate for a few seconds, but this one stops almost right away. It works fine though.

Just checked the 2 connectors. Top one was plugged in. The lower connector was basically unplugged. When I pushed it I felt it move and heard/felt the "click" sound of it connecting. Ill keep an eye on my coolant temp and see.
Good catch with the temp going up. Not many people would see that.
So I believe the fan was not spinning at all...
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top