[Redturbo]

I'm sure this is a long while from now, but i'm wondering about a turbo upgrade.

I was looking at 845 motorsports turbo upgrade for $2,500USD (which is not a bad price compared to other turbo kit upgrades i have seen) and they are showing dyne results of the Veloster Turbo, which has our same motor, of 165HP Gain!
Our car is rated at 201HP (at the crank) which dyno's at 178HP i believe.
The turbo upgrade gives you 315 Dyno, which is 365HP At the crank! WOW!

I am certain this is a long way out, but let me be the first to say, i'm standing in line now! I would love to have that kind of power. Of course, this will for sure void the warranty so I would also be hesitant about it...but with those kind of numbers...it's surely tempting

Any thoughts from the members on what you would do?

 

[Norrie]

Suppose you'd follow that upgrade with a pair of wings for the car.

 

[MikeyB]

Redturbo, save me a place in line. I'm going all out with this car so this is something I would be very interested in as well.

 

[Jazza]

This is something I'd love to do say probably about 2 or 3 years down the track

 

[6thElementEngineering]

That's great! Perhaps something we could build in the future.
I'm happy the stock 1.6 can take that power.

Does anyone know if they can tune the Veloster so that turbo kit is running correctly? The factory ECU can handle it, it just wouldn't be optimum......

 

[stirider]

Here's one thing you have to keep in mind upgrading power isn't as simple as just buying a 5K turbo....You have so many piece that aren't made to take that power on our car.

First of : Intercooler upgrade 500 usd, fuel pump 300 usd, injectors 300 usd, clutch 900 usd, 3'' full exhaust 1250usd, a tune for the setup u'll be running around 1K prob, and so on and so on. That's the main problem when you upgrade with so much power is that the factory parts won't be able to handle it. Also we don't even how long our block can handle that power that's a lot of gambling. I didn't list it all but that's what i'm thinking for now. We're already near 4.5K of pieces + 2.5K of turbo not even installed yet.

I'm not trying to discourage you but i'm just making you realize that upgrading power isn't going to be as simple as buying a 2.5K usd turbo putting it in the hole and add 150hp, driving it around with all other stock parts....That's a lot of investment but if you're willing to do it go for it !!

A tune with couple pieces(SRI, full exhaust 3'', etc) should do fine without investing a ton of money and your car will remain reliable.

 

[Redturbo]

The turbo kit comes with a tune for the VT

 

[Redturbo]

Here's one thing you have to keep in mind upgrading power isn't as simple as just buying a 5K turbo....You have so many piece that aren't made to take that power on our car.

First of : Intercooler upgrade 500 usd, fuel pump 300 usd, injectors 300 usd, clutch 900 usd, 3'' full exhaust 1250usd, a tune for the setup u'll be running around 1K prob, and so on and so on. That's the main problem when you upgrade with so much power is that the factory parts won't be able to handle it. Also we don't even how long our block can handle that power that's a lot of gambling. I didn't list it all but that's what i'm thinking for now. We're already near 4.5K of pieces + 2.5K of turbo not even installed yet.

I'm not trying to discourage you but i'm just making you realize that upgrading power isn't going to be as simple as buying a 2.5K usd turbo putting it in the hole and add 150hp, driving it around with all other stock parts....That's a lot of investment but if you're willing to do it go for it !!

A tune with couple pieces(SRI, full exhaust 3'', etc) should do fine without investing a ton of money and your car will remain reliable.

You are correct about needing the supporting mods for another turbo. The turbo kit comes with a couple things like an intercoller, charge pipes etc but you would probably need more.

 

[Redturbo]

Plus like you said with a tune, intake, exhaust, new FMIC, you're pushing 300whp which is plenty in a FWD car lol

 

[6thElementEngineering]

Here's one thing you have to keep in mind upgrading power isn't as simple as just buying a 5K turbo....You have so many piece that aren't made to take that power on our car.

First of : Intercooler upgrade 500 usd, fuel pump 300 usd, injectors 300 usd, clutch 900 usd, 3'' full exhaust 1250usd, a tune for the setup u'll be running around 1K prob, and so on and so on. That's the main problem when you upgrade with so much power is that the factory parts won't be able to handle it. Also we don't even how long our block can handle that power that's a lot of gambling. I didn't list it all but that's what i'm thinking for now. We're already near 4.5K of pieces + 2.5K of turbo not even installed yet.

I'm not trying to discourage you but i'm just making you realize that upgrading power isn't going to be as simple as buying a 2.5K usd turbo putting it in the hole and add 150hp, driving it around with all other stock parts....That's a lot of investment but if you're willing to do it go for it !!

A tune with couple pieces(SRI, full exhaust 3'', etc) should do fine without investing a ton of money and your car will remain reliable.

Aftermarket fuel injectors (bolt-on) do not exist for this engine yet. Direct injection injectors cost lots of moo-la! If they do, I haven't come across them yet.
If that company was able to get those whp numbers with STOCK fuel injectors, that is very impressive. What is also very impressive is numbers like that on the stock high pressure fuel pump!

I would like to see data (from gauges or an OBD-2 reader) showing fuel pressure at the rail at wide-open-throttle, both stock and modified.
One thing about direct injection on the mazdaspeeds is that fuel pressure was a big issue with just small bolt-ons at that power level (~290 whp to 315 whp). If that isn't an issue at 300 whp on our motor, that is very very good for us looking to make easy bolt-on power.

Plus like you said with a tune, intake, exhaust, new FMIC, you're pushing 300whp which is plenty in a FWD car lol

When you guys say this, you don;t mean stock turbo do you?
I haven't seen stats on the turbo yet, but I highly doubt it is large enough to flow the CFM required for that power level.

 

[Redturbo]

Aftermarket fuel injectors (bolt-on) do not exist for this engine yet. Direct injection injectors cost lots of moo-la! If they do, I haven't come across them yet.
If that company was able to get those whp numbers with STOCK fuel injectors, that is very impressive. What is also very impressive is numbers like that on the stock high pressure fuel pump!

I would like to see data (from gauges or an OBD-2 reader) showing fuel pressure at the rail at wide-open-throttle, both stock and modified.
One thing about direct injection on the mazdaspeeds is that fuel pressure was a big issue with just small bolt-ons at that power level (~290 whp to 315 whp). If that isn't an issue at 300 whp on our motor, that is very very good for us looking to make easy bolt-on power.



When you guys say this, you don;t mean stock turbo do you?
I haven't seen stats on the turbo yet, but I highly doubt it is large enough to flow the CFM required for that power level.

I'm just going off the veloster turbo which the basically the same exact engine bay as ours. I was looking through their forums last night (been a member on there as well) and they were showing almost 300hp with FMIC adding around 20-25. Intake adding 10-15 at max. Exhaust which varies on the HP and the tune which gives them around 60hp as well. So they are around 290-300. Not sure about what other supporting mods (if any) they are using with the stock motor

 

[6thElementEngineering]

I'm just going off the veloster turbo which the basically the same exact engine bay as ours. I was looking through their forums last night (been a member on there as well) and they were showing almost 300hp with FMIC adding around 20-25. Intake adding 10-15 at max. Exhaust which varies on the HP and the tune which gives them around 60hp as well. So they are around 290-300. Not sure about what other supporting mods (if any) they are using with the stock motor

Do you have a thread you can link me to?
I need to sign up on that site. I have to see this to believe it. I'll do some reading there tonight.

Did you get the private message I sent you?

 

[Redturbo]

Do you have a thread you can link me to?
I need to sign up on that site. I have to see this to believe it. I'll do some reading there tonight.

Did you get the private message I sent you?

I don't have a link and i'll probably never find it again lol
I found it by searching "Veloster turbo tune" and it came up on the VT forum and i poked around for a while and came up on it...if i find it again i'll be sure to post it and tag you.

I did get your PM, and i apologize for not being able to respond, i haven't forgotten about you. I'll get straight to it when i get off work later.

 

[Markus]

Have a look at the Mk2 Focus RS (Ford Focus (second generation, Europe) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) which has 301 bhp (guessing at the crank, not at the wheels) going through the front wheels, but has the very clever revoknuckle suspension setup, AND quaife torque biasing LSD, to try and eliminate torque steer. Without that it'd be all over the place when you put the hammer down.
Do our cars have an LSD, I don't recall, possibly not. Ok, some of the stability stuff might be helpful here, but would likely need a remap with the increase in power, but even still, I'd say it'd be a bit of a handful.

 

[6thElementEngineering]

Have a look at the Mk2 Focus RS (Ford Focus (second generation, Europe) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) which has 301 bhp (guessing at the crank, not at the wheels) going through the front wheels, but has the very clever revoknuckle suspension setup, AND quaife torque biasing LSD, to try and eliminate torque steer. Without that it'd be all over the place when you put the hammer down.
Do our cars have an LSD, I don't recall, possibly not. Ok, some of the stability stuff might be helpful here, but would likely need a remap with the increase in power, but even still, I'd say it'd be a bit of a handful.

I don't think these cars have LSD's either. That would be nice to have.

Given what we know so far, these Fortes would be really fun even at 250 whp. I can't wait for this to happen!

 

[6thElementEngineering]

Fuel pressure is determined by throttle percentage, load, and boost/vacuum as far as I can gather from data read outs @idle my rail pressure is around 560 psi @WOT and 19psi boost I am normally around 2250psi and 11.3 fuel ratio. With a ecu that can control pressure and injector pulse I would think we shouldn't have much worries of leaning out.

Thank you for that info. Fuel pressure is my biggest curiosity with this engine. Can your software log injector duty cycle? That parameter alone can almost determine how mug legroom we have with fueling capabilities.

 

[6thElementEngineering]

Maybe we can have the members here bombard TOAD with some email requests? Nothing to lose!

 

[6thElementEngineering]

I can't tell if there is another place for that has the turbo upgrade discussion or if this is the only one but the name fits.
I can tell choosing the right turbo for the HP desired looks like it could be fun but rather than watching a movie at work I decided to see if there might be more available for us to use if someone decided to go another route besides a modded stock turbo. Which if anyone has a spec sheet for the "stuffed" turbo I would love to compare it to others.

After crunching numbers and using both stock and future goals to find a turbo that will perform in both situations this was my choice Garratt GTX2860R 58 trim .60 a/r.
I got to this by finding what my pressure ratio would be for stock application and for future application (stock PR is 2.39 and future PR is 3.17) then I got the Corrected air Flow for both stock and future use, stock CAF was close to being 19.99 lb/min and future will be right at 33 lb/min for peak rpm, peak torque is stock at 13.52 lb/min and future is at 22.2 lb/min.

If anyone has any ideas please fill in some blanks I might have missed (all my future calculations are for 300 HP @ sea level with -1 for the intake and -2 for pressure drop in the intercooler) stock I used -3 for intercooler and -2 for inake

Feel free to start a new thread about this if you want.

I was going to start with a turbo around this size when I develop a kit of sorts that would include a new turbo and exhaust manifold.