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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been lurking into VW forum.
Even before getting used 2015 F5 SX MT I was considering 2013 GTI Autobahn. But it was more than 3k extra and without any warranty.

Anyway, I am still, especially after last winter and driving my wife's AWD Fiat 500X, thinking of VW. Mainly VW Golf R.
I mean, I cannot really complain, but in snow, when she took off, there was no way for me to catch up. And lets face it - on dry, even wet, I smoke this NA 2.4, and not even trying.
On snow, though, she was ahead by a lot. We both have snow tires. And the fun from diving into a turn on snow with AWD...

Sorry for digressing here.


Anyway, the question to those who are or were or will be tune, or to the tuners themselves.

In VW I found many of them saying they tuned completely stock car to get more power. Stock means no mods to the intake, exhaust. Nothing obvious, maybe KN drop in. In some cases replaced spark plugs to accommodate for higher heat loads. And fuel.
But other than that the car seems completely stock, sounds stock, but goes faster.

I noticed in our forum that we tend to do many things ahead - replace whole intake, change intercooler, do DP, and finally then get a tune.

I know that each and every mod will have some small gains, but without them at all - what would be the tune worth? How far can one push it and still be OK?
Just open for a discussion.
 

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I have been lurking into VW forum.
Even before getting used 2015 F5 SX MT I was considering 2013 GTI Autobahn. But it was more than 3k extra and without any warranty.

Anyway, I am still, especially after last winter and driving my wife's AWD Fiat 500X, thinking of VW. Mainly VW Golf R.
I mean, I cannot really complain, but in snow, when she took off, there was no way for me to catch up. And lets face it - on dry, even wet, I smoke this NA 2.4, and not even trying.
On snow, though, she was ahead by a lot. We both have snow tires. And the fun from diving into a turn on snow with AWD...

Sorry for digressing here.


Anyway, the question to those who are or were or will be tune, or to the tuners themselves.

In VW I found many of them saying they tuned completely stock car to get more power. Stock means no mods to the intake, exhaust. Nothing obvious, maybe KN drop in. In some cases replaced spark plugs to accommodate for higher heat loads. And fuel.
But other than that the car seems completely stock, sounds stock, but goes faster.

I noticed in our forum that we tend to do many things ahead - replace whole intake, change intercooler, do DP, and finally then get a tune.

I know that each and every mod will have some small gains, but without them at all - what would be the tune worth? How far can one push it and still be OK?
Just open for a discussion.
Every single extra hardware change is giving more potential from tune.
Stock car can be tuned with gain probably around 20 hp in our case but after few mods that would be maybe 30 or maybe even more (just guessing numbers here). Forte engine is tiny with optimal (for stock power) but small components for bigger power.
VW platform is old and reliable, it's easier to push more power from stock car with higher capacity. And it's more fun to push from all 4 corners.


Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
 

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Yeah short and sweet, if you're looking to get the most a tune "unlocks" power in your vehicle. Adding aftermarket parts (usually with better performance intent) before tuning allows the tuner to "unlock" the added bonus of that part of the more restrictive OEM part.

Hope that makes sense...?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Yeah short and sweet, if you're looking to get the most a tune "unlocks" power in your vehicle. Adding aftermarket parts (usually with better performance intent) before tuning allows the tuner to "unlock" the added bonus of that part of the more restrictive OEM part.

Hope that makes sense...?
It does. I get the idea completely.

My question, though, was how far can we go with all stock parts?
I mean, lets look on the numbers - according to testimonies I read here and on the sponsors websites, each part can add tiny amount of power just by installing it. So, SRI will add say 5 HP (most likely in the upper range only, but it does). DP will decrease spool time and might add a few HP and a few lb*ft across the whole power curve. FMIC will help with power on very hot days and for frequent long WOT and also may contribute a few HP.
And overall we may get maybe 7-10 HP total and maybe extra 15 lb*ft. Just guessing.

But then we do tune and all of this suddenly start to produce much more power. I mean, how come?

Hence, the OEM tune is the most limiting factor, right? Therefore, one may think, lets tune stock intake, stock exhaust, stock IC, and see what happens. And that's what I saw on VW. Sure, Patryk, it is nice 2.0 old good engine, but still - Stage 1 tune adds like 40 HP. Only by altering the tune. Add a few more mods and it may be 45-50 HP. So overall it seems like the parts unlocked extra few HP that we still had before the tune.

I am not an expert in tuning and I am looking only on the numbers. Is comparing 2.0 VW to 1.6 KIA a good idea? Not sure, but an engine is an engine. Both are GDI, both are turboed, both are inline 4, both are petrol... different plants, different displacements, but overall comparable I would say.


And Patryk is guessing just like I am. Stock tune would get extra 20 HP in our case. Maybe...
I know it takes time, but I would love to see dynos of such "experiments".
Because if I follow this route - SRI, FMIC, DP - all of them are about 1200-1500 USD, right? Tune is say 500 USD. Maybe another 200 if you get spare ECM.
All the parts give you extra 10-15 HP (maybe), tune will give you 20, with all parts 30.

Just by doing USD spent/HP gained, we get from tune 25 USD/HP, while parts 80 USD/HP (assuming 1200 total with 15 HP gain).
With both it would be a tad more than 55 USD/HP.

Maybe that is the VW Golf guys way of thinking?

EDIT.
So here is a link to 1.8 TSI Golf Mark VII.
http://shop.achtuning.com/APR-Performance-Chip-ECU-Tuning-VW-MkVII-18T-TSI-Gen-3.aspx
They claim to get 282 lb*ft and 242 HP (that is +82 and +70 from stock respectively) from this 1.8 using only tune (no mods needed) with 91 octane fuel.
 

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Main factor on most, maybe even all tunes is minimum petrol grade 91 instead of factory being tuned to 87. That gives window for more adjustments in tune, which is going to allow for better output.
Factory tune is safe (our also super reach), back in the day tuner told me it's safe to add 10-20% of factory power to still be on safe side, no hardware upgrades. By changing parts we would go higher on % increase.
Important is to remember about strength of parts. You can reach +40hp on factory set up and drive it happily but for how long, but by upgrading hardware you can get same increase but that would be safer and longer lasting.
Also every mass produced engine is slightly different, that's why factory tune is universal for those slight differences.
Remember when we tuned 2.5 dCi in murano and if I remember right we went from 170 hp to 195hp and from 380Nm or so to 550Nm, all stock, just tune. We could push more but tranny was cutting any power over that.

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Main factor on most, maybe even all tunes is minimum petrol grade 91 instead of factory being tuned to 87. That gives window for more adjustments in tune, which is going to allow for better output.
Factory tune is safe (our also super reach), back in the day tuner told me it's safe to add 10-20% of factory power to still be on safe side, no hardware upgrades. By changing parts we would go higher on % increase.
Important is to remember about strength of parts. You can reach +40hp on factory set up and drive it happily but for how long, but by upgrading hardware you can get same increase but that would be safer and longer lasting.
Also every mass produced engine is slightly different, that's why factory tune is universal for those slight differences.
Remember when we tuned 2.5 dCi in murano and if I remember right we went from 170 hp to 195hp and from 380Nm or so to 550Nm, all stock, just tune. We could push more but tranny was cutting any power over that.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
Are you a tuner, Patryk? Caught a comment where you said you're in Toronto.
 

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VW's are relatively conservative out of the box, so a lot is left of the table tune wise. They've made huge attempts to portray an image of reliability so being cautious in the ECU is one way to do that.

The worth on a stock, tuned car is totally dependent on your expectations. Personally I'd be happy with a stock airbox + modified piping, dump pipe and tune. Minimal noise but enough to give you some oomph.
 
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