Kia Forte Turbo Forum banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
514 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,697 Posts
Don't. Just don't.

It will never allow full power and will keep increased idle. Your fuel consumption will be huge.
I am not sure what "clever" marketing idea it was to say thermostat at 150 F (65 C) add POWER to your car.
It will always run richer, washing cylinder walls, and ECU will error out not seeing operating temperature.

Better yet invest in better radiator if you are concerned about cooling. Or something similar, but do not drop temperature on thermostat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: drc69 and 15ForteSX

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Don't. Just don't.

It will never allow full power and will keep increased idle. Your fuel consumption will be huge.
I am not sure what "clever" marketing idea it was to say thermostat at 150 F (65 C) add POWER to your car.
It will always run richer, washing cylinder walls, and ECU will error out not seeing operating temperature.

Better yet invest in better radiator if you are concerned about cooling. Or something similar, but do not drop temperature on thermostat.
Second

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
514 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
okay just had to ask for the cooling benefits thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
402 Posts
Don't. Just don't.

It will never allow full power and will keep increased idle. Your fuel consumption will be huge.
I am not sure what "clever" marketing idea it was to say thermostat at 150 F (65 C) add POWER to your car.
It will always run richer, washing cylinder walls, and ECU will error out not seeing operating temperature.

Better yet invest in better radiator if you are concerned about cooling. Or something similar, but do not drop temperature on thermostat.
Agree - :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
514 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
so i found out some more info on this. yes apparently the 150F is too low so this particular one wouldn't be good for us.
i was thinking of trying out the 160F thermostats.
i talked with trdtoy from VT forum with XE and he has 160F versions that he had positive results in his car.
this is what he had to say:

"Oh lord yeah, 150°f is no good, too low for oem tune, and most tuners can't access maps to adjust for it.
160°f is lowest you can use safely on any tune.
Climates that stay colder year round or get real cold frequently id recommend a 170°f at lowest.
Oem is 180°f across all hyundai/kia from what I've seen.

Unless tuned is altered for colder thermostat, which most tuners can't do, the car will loose power below around 156°f-160°f coolant temps.
Coolant temps on these cars run 10°f-12°f over thermostat rating during normal driving. Temps can get at or just below the thermostat rating
if weather is cool and/or you decelerate in gear for an extended period of time.

Safer on forte than VT from what I gather as forte run a little hotter anyway.
I ran one in my 13 accent for over 100k and in my VT for 45K no issues. Weather from 0°f to 105°f.
"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,697 Posts
But why the reason to run colder?



The engine temperature has not much to do with engine overheating... the overheating comes from heat dissipation to atmosphere for which process is solely responsible the radiator and water pump.

From my readings (ScanGauge)
Thermostat is rated 82 C. Engine temperature during normal and more spirited driving, including a few WOT from intersection to intersection (with of course coasting parts) would allow engine to warm up to 87 C, most of the time 85 C. Driving on highway - 82-85 C. Only during WOT from one stop to another would result with 90 C due to the fact the car stopped and flow is decreased. But it would drop quickly to 85 or so. Of course after a couple of times radiator saturates and engine reaches 96 C, but that is not the case here. We assume cold water enters the system.

So, in short.
For city driving, even if you use 70 C thermostat, do not expect to see engine colder. It will NOT be. Radiator will eventually saturate and will allow engine to reach 95 C anyway. Unless you change the point when fan kicks in and keeps radiator colder.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 15ForteSX

·
Registered
Joined
·
514 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
But why the reason to run colder?



The engine temperature has not much to do with engine overheating... the overheating comes from heat dissipation to atmosphere for which process is solely responsible the radiator and water pump.

From my readings (ScanGauge)
Thermostat is rated 82 C. Engine temperature during normal and more spirited driving, including a few WOT from intersection to intersection (with of course coasting parts) would allow engine to warm up to 87 C, most of the time 85 C. Driving on highway - 82-85 C. Only during WOT from one stop to another would result with 90 C due to the fact the car stopped and flow is decreased. But it would drop quickly to 85 or so. Of course after a couple of times radiator saturates and engine reaches 96 C, but that is not the case here. We assume cold water enters the system.

So, in short.
For city driving, even if you use 70 C thermostat, do not expect to see engine colder. It will NOT be. Radiator will eventually saturate and will allow engine to reach 95 C anyway. Unless you change the point when fan kicks in and keeps radiator colder.
with your response comes his explanation:
"Guys temp readings are normal/spot on for the oem thermostat. The temps with the colder thermostat will be the same differential lower like I've mentioned before. In stop n go, yes it will get as hot as the oem but it takes A LOT longer to do so. Reason being the oem does not open fully for flow until right when fan kicks on. The colder one is fully open 20°f before that. When it gets hot the colder one drops temps quicker than the oem thermostat does.

On both NA and turbo 1.6 and oem thermostat the car reported misfires using torque app. After colder thermostat install 0 misfires reported on either platform. Even with the VT having a tune with 70-80 whp over oem levels.
To say it does not lower engine temps is far from the truth. Everything per torque app says so as does a temperature gun on various parts of the motor.
"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
I'm not changing my thermostat. I already have issues with it (also with my 2015) staying at operating temp when it's freezing out and I have the heater running.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
514 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm not changing my thermostat. I already have issues with it (also with my 2015) staying at operating temp when it's freezing out and I have the heater running.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
how cold does it get where your at? you can step it up to the 170F if your worried for that reason.

160°f is lowest you can use safely on any tune.
Climates that stay colder year round or get real cold frequently id recommend a 170°f at lowest.
Oem is 180°f across all hyundai/kia from what I've seen.


in any case i would like to try this out for myself and i can report the results.
what sort of problems do you think i will see if i tried it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
It gets down in the teens most winters, but I see issues when it's around freezing. It'll hit temp reasonably, but I'd the heater is wide ass open, the temp will drop to 140 or so until I stop and let it heat soak. It's almost like the heater core is too big or too efficient. It won't do it unless the heater is on

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
194 Posts
Just changing the thermo wont make the car run cooler. The ECM is tuned for 180 F. If you just slap a cooler thermo you will have issues.

That being said if you were an Auto X dude and you tracked your car you could:

Change the thermo
Send your ECM to TORK for him to tune everything to run cooler.

The thermostat just opens at 149F, your cooling loops efficiency will determine what temp it can be kept at under what conditions.

My car is a hot little bastard. A few WOTs with my SS turbo pushing 25.5 psi can shoot the CVVT oil temp to 215-220 F at will.

I still use the 180 F thermo at TORKs recomendation. The major cooling capacity is from both oil loops. Engine oil and ATF. There is nothing faster at cooling a motor than a AT enigine braking. The ATF sucks the heat out of the motor as it downshifts. The ATF fluid flows to than trans fluid cooler, fan dumps the heat BAM. I have a SETRAB dual system with SPAL fans. I can dump 15 to 20 F at any time. 2 fans are independently operated by wireless, depending on what I need. My ATF never gets above 165 F. I can do the same with the engine oil if I need to as well.

Unlike engine oil ATF is more efficient the cooler it is, the ideal ATF temp is around 150 F. For reference ( from trans experts), if you keep your ATF fluid at 170 you double the life of your AT.
With a standard KIA/Hyund 1.6 T AT setup the ATF is the same temp as the coolant. That can be hot as fuck. Its is no bueno to have 195 and above ATF fluid.
Engine oil needs to be a good 180-200 F (in the block CVVT), this allows any condensation/moisture to evap or burn off. The trick is to keep a nice cooler supply of 165-170 F oil going back into a running engine.

On my torque PIDs if I see an ATF temp of 155 F and an in going oil temp of 170 and a CVVT oil temp of 195-200 Im really happy.:p
** Mishimotos super coolant, its the stuff. I use coolant as the mediator, but the two above do the heavy moving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,697 Posts
Unlike engine oil ATF is more efficient the cooler it is, the ideal ATF temp is around 150 F. For reference ( from trans experts), if you keep your ATF fluid at 170 you double the life of your AT.
That is why the best 0-60 times are on colder days with car reaching operating temp just a minute ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 15ForteSX

·
Registered
Joined
·
514 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
how many have actually tried any thermostat other than the stock?
we are speculating whereas trdtoy has already tried this on his cars.
did he just get lucky and didn't have problems?
i hardly think he's making stuff up.
thanks to all who are contributing so far.

this was his response:
"When you go from an oem 180°f, to a 160°f, the coolant and atf temp will drop aprox 20°f, and cvvt temp will drop aprox 4°f, on an otherwise stock auto car. These are based on stabilized temps during normal driving. Not sure what the exact changes will be on a manual car but will be similar to the auto.

Once you start changing fluids/oils and adding auxiliary coolers into the mix the temperature readings will become less dependant on the thermostat operating range.

Changing to the 160°f thermostat will keep the temperatures in a much better area for performance and component longevity at a much lower cost than going to different fluids/oils and adding auxiliary coolers as well. However, if pushing the car hard, a good auxiliary oil cooler with its own thermostat is still a good idea.
"

===========

edit: some more from him
"I've collected data from both oem 180°f and 160°f thermostats and have seen the maps pertaining to them. Nearly 150 K miles between the 2 platforms of 1.6 NA and 1.6 G-TDI 0 issues, both auto cars, over the last 5 years. Took the NA car to nearly 150 whp and the VT is around 240 whp. Even oil analysis says no difference between the 2 thermostats re water, fuel, or contamination otherwise. The data monitored and logged via torque app and on dyno do not lie and give the 160°f thermostat the win.

But like I said, this was all on auto cars. Have not collected any data from manual cars as of yet.
Fyi took a 30 mile drive this eve and coolant and trans temp range was 168°f-176°f, cvvt was 196°f-204°f, ATF got to max of 155 °f.
Ambient temperature ranged from 73-77°f.
"

i will try it out soon and report back to you guys.
i trust you all but this guy did already try this without fail.
i think its worth investigating.

other sides discussion
http://www.velosterturbo.org/forum/sale/24497-160-f-thermostats.html
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top