Kia Forte Turbo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #1






Hi Everyone, Mike here at NST.

Some of you may know, or have seen, that we recently released a crank pulley for the Hyundai Veloster and Veloster Turbo. This same crank pulley is compatible with the KIA FORTE KOUPE 1.6 turbo. I'm curious to see if anyone on these forums has tried one yet, and would like to see your pics and hear your feedback.

For those who have not seen anything on this pulley yet, here are a couple links...

Dyno testing with pics and charts, on the NST website...
http://nonstoptuningusa.com/2015/02...-turbo-lightweight-crank-pulley-dyno-testing/

Huge discussion thread, with customer feedback, on the Veloster forum...
http://www.velosterturbo.org/forum/...p-tuning-lightweight-pulley-dyno-results.html

I look forward to reading your responses and reviews!

(mods, please don't be super quick to pull the delete/lock trigger. NST would be happy to pay for advertising if the members of your community show support for our products. Many thanks)


MIKE @ NST
www.NonStopTuning.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
468 Posts
I had talk with you guys about it.. and i'm just down the road so to speak in Austin.. glad to see you are posting on our page now.. love to hear what people think about your part on this site as well...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
I like it. I'm curious on the vibration addition to the crank
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #4






ON THE TOPIC OF VIBRATIONS, HARMONICS, AND SAFETY

This one deserves an entire book, but here goes...


Q. Will NST Pulleys lead to premature engine failure?
I cover this topic at least several times a month but I don't mind, I understand that your cars are a very large investment for all of you and I prefer that you be intelligent and informed about all your modifications. So here we go again... Please take a few minutes to read everything I have posted here, as I worked hard on trying to give you a good explanation on the topic...

In the past many engines were externally balanced. There was an external balancer attached to the outside of the engine, on the crank snout, used to balance the engine externally. The crank pulley in such engines would then be attached to this balancer. Removal of this balancer is a bad idea. These balancers were most often used on large V shaped engines of the domestic muscle car era.

Take a look at any modern (1980s and beyond) Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or other japanese inline 4 and you will find no such balancer. These engines are all internally balanced, and this process has improved even further since the late 1990s. So the topic of a BALANCER does not apply here.

What you will find on many modern engines is a harmonic damper. This is a small rubber band, litterally less than 2mm, less than 1/8th of an inch, thick that is built into the crank pulley. OEM crank pulleys are often called DAMPERS. Try placing an order for a crank pulley at your dealer and your invoice will read damper. This rubber is used to absorb something called NVH, noise/vibration/harshness. Suffice it to say, this rubber is actually not very good at performing its intended purpose after as little as a few thousand miles. What happens to rubber after a couple years of humidity, weather, snow, rain, etc? It often becomes brittle, hard, and crunchy. Can something with these properties actually absorb vibrations very well?

Many many NST customers who have reported smoother running engines with NST pulleys. Especially at idle. How is this possible if the rubber is such a vital and super important piece??? Perhaps the rubber is not as important as it is cracked up to be???


Furthermore....


On the topic of the rubber damper, engine vibrations, or possible threats resulting from elimination of this rubber piece...

On a relatively understressed near stock motor with bolt ons or low amounts of boost like what most of the people on this forum probably run, a solid pulley will not have any life threatening consequences.

The engineering reasons are that most modern engines have a short, strong crank with, a relatively high natural frequency. The dangerous second harmonic that can cause damage occurs at an rpm that this sort of engine will never see, in the area above 10,000 rpm. Even the stock damper is not tuned for attinuation at this sort of rpm so the argument is somewhat of a moot point.

Now weak engines that are pushing the limit with LOTS of revs, wimpy cranks, super long strokes, lots of boost and dwelling in the upper rpm ranges for long periods of time can benefit from a damper designed to deal with this sort of operation but our engine is not like this, and probably very few people with this motor on this forum push the envelope that hard. How many 500HP, 12,000RPM motors do we have on these forums?

As far as I can tell, our engine has a strong and stiff bottom end that is well built for our intended use. It has an internaly balanced crankshaft which is less like to break due to torsional vibration.

There are a lot of Honda, Toyota, and Nissan guys who use underdrive crank pulleys in road racing series like NASA or SCCA. Road racing is much more punishing on an engine than other motorsports. The engine is subjected to run times lasting roughly 30 minutes with the engine always in the upper ranges of its rpm limit. One race weekend is the equivlent of hundreds of 1/4 mile passes. These guys would not use NST pulleys if they were not reliable.

NST sponsored the first ever wheel to wheel Scion tC NASA Road Race car. The same car was very competitive in the Grand Am series and had factory backing from Toyota, Scion, and TRD. This car used pulleys from NST with great results since day one.

NST has sponsored several drift cars participating in the professional US drift series, Fromula Drift. Several of our cars have also competed in the Xtreme Drift Circuit and NOPI Drift series. To make things better, NST products are also used in autocross, time attack, and drag cars. These cars have been using NST pulleys with no issues of any kind for the past few seasons.

We could go on and on...

Is a solid crank pulley harmless to all engines? No it is not. As I said... small, super high reving engines, when modified way past the simple bolt on stages may have problems. These engines reach critcal harmonics, past the 10,000 rpm range, an rpm only reached by certain RACE engines.

A mildly modded inline six will most likely be fine but one subjected to high rpm for long periods of time (90% of its life) with lots of boost will probably suffer. In this case, the stock damper is probably not adequate either.

Some of the older american V8 engines are externaly balanced and it is critical not to use a solid hub pulley not designed for these applications, or damage to the engine could result. You will not find solid NST pulleys on our website for such engines.

Our engines and most around here do not fall into the above catagories. Rest assured that your engines will not blow up and die or have a reduced life in street and even racing use with these parts.

I would bet that every "expert" that tells you otherwise has little personal, practical, real world experience with the subject; as it applies in your case.

Again, I understand that your cars are a very large investment and that you depend on them as your daily means of transportation, so I do not take your questions personally. But please remember... No NST product is designed to cause you any harm or grief. Not all pulleys are created equal, and no other pulley is an NST pulley.

(this will be my one and only post regarding this issue in this thread, as I am not interested in the back-and-forth style, I-know-better-than-you, shouting matches some forum members seem to enjoy)


MIKE @ NST
NonStopTuning | NST USA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Well said. They come in black right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
981 Posts
For most 1.6T owners this would be fine but just to clarify the term Harmonic balancer does not apply to our cars nor do we have one stock. On the other hand what we do have is a Torsional absorber and prevents 2 things from happening 1st is reduces torsional oscillations on the free end of the crank (being a 4 cyl with a short crank also reduces this) but the better controlled it is the longer life of connected internals including your timing components / chain and gears (not a big deal with timing belts). The torsional absorber also reduces incoming vibrations from for example the A/C compressor. Not saying this is a bad purchase or mod and may possibly do this myself since I am actually more interested in the gains than longevity or warranty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
hmmm... gold sounds like it would match my abyss blue lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
For most 1.6T owners this would be fine but just to clarify the term Harmonic balancer does not apply to our cars nor do we have one stock. On the other hand what we do have is a Torsional absorber and prevents 2 things from happening 1st is reduces torsional oscillations on the free end of the crank (being a 4 cyl with a short crank also reduces this) but the better controlled it is the longer life of connected internals including your timing components / chain and gears (not a big deal with timing belts). The torsional absorber also reduces incoming vibrations from for example the A/C compressor. Not saying this is a bad purchase or mod and may possibly do this myself since I am actually more interested in the gains than longevity or warranty.
As I stated above...

What you will find on many modern engines is a harmonic damper. This is a small rubber band, litterally less than 2mm, less than 1/8th of an inch, thick that is built into the crank pulley. OEM crank pulleys are often called DAMPERS. Try placing an order for a crank pulley at your dealer and your invoice will read damper. This rubber is used to absorb something called NVH, noise/vibration/harshness. Suffice it to say, this rubber is actually not very good at performing its intended purpose after as little as a few thousand miles. What happens to rubber after a couple years of humidity, weather, snow, rain, etc? It often becomes brittle, hard, and crunchy. Can something with these properties actually absorb vibrations very well?

In addition...

There are two waves of harmonics/vibrations, the lower of which is of no consequence. The dangerous second harmonic that can cause damage occurs at an rpm that this sort of engine will never see, in the area above 10,000 rpm. Even the stock damper is not tuned for attinuation at this sort of rpm so the argument is somewhat of a moot point.


MIKE @ NST
NonStopTuning | NST USA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
981 Posts
As I stated above...

What you will find on many modern engines is a harmonic damper. This is a small rubber band, litterally less than 2mm, less than 1/8th of an inch, thick that is built into the crank pulley. OEM crank pulleys are often called DAMPERS. Try placing an order for a crank pulley at your dealer and your invoice will read damper. This rubber is used to absorb something called NVH, noise/vibration/harshness. Suffice it to say, this rubber is actually not very good at performing its intended purpose after as little as a few thousand miles. What happens to rubber after a couple years of humidity, weather, snow, rain, etc? It often becomes brittle, hard, and crunchy. Can something with these properties actually absorb vibrations very well?

In addition...

There are two waves of harmonics/vibrations, the lower of which is of no consequence. The dangerous second harmonic that can cause damage occurs at an rpm that this sort of engine will never see, in the area above 10,000 rpm. Even the stock damper is not tuned for attinuation at this sort of rpm so the argument is somewhat of a moot point.


MIKE @ NST
NonStopTuning | NST USA
I didn't say anything about harmonics at any rpm, I was talking about torsional oscillations which is different all together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I didn't say anything about harmonics at any rpm, I was talking about torsional oscillations which is different all together.
Unfortunately, I have this same conversation on an almost daily basis.

I have not seen this as a real issue, on real cars, in the real world in my ten years of experience with NST pulleys. This includes not only this engine, but Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Infiniti, Acura, Scion, Subaru, etc. Theoretical discussion is great, but the real world experience tells us the worries aren't as legitimate as some theories may suggest.

Huge discussion thread, with customer feedback, on the Veloster forum as it applies to THIS pulley...
Nonstop Tuning Lightweight Pulley Dyno Results

Best of luck!


MIKE @ NST
NonStopTuning | NST USA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
468 Posts
just waiting for the water pull at so I can order both at the same time... I like doing every thing at the same time..
 
  • Like
Reactions: NonStopTuning
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top