Kia Forte Turbo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had an idea today... I started searching around and it seems the census is that cone filters create turbulence.

So I was searching some on stock air boxes vs cais and sris.

And I'm thinking about cutting my aem pipe down some more then using a 2.75 to 3.25 silicone adapter to attach my stock air box to the smooth aem pipe.

I've noticed the factory air box lid has a velocity stack and we lose this when going to a cone filter.

I also thought about putting a hole or 2 in the front corner of the box that points towards the driver side headlight but I'm not sure as that may drop the air box interior pressure while driving.

Thoughts or ideas?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
439 Posts
The snorkel thing on air box is removable and as well there is a cover thing that can be removed as well if you still want the factory air scoop that goes to the grill. So no holes needed. But I am not sure how well the factory panel filter works....
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
i would probably leave the snorkel, i did think about sealing off that open area where it appears there is some "foam" in the snorkel... it would seem that would drop pressure in the actual snorkel going into the box.

i would probably try and source a K&N filter or maybe see if AEM or someone has a dry flow type panel filter.

i was surprised before, but alot of flows tests ive seen show that a flatter style filter flows better than a cone filter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
not exactly. but something similar

The Best Street Driven Intake Kit That Hyundai Already Makes For Us - Genesis Forum: GenCoupe Hyundai Genesis Forums

Airbox vs. Cone Filter differences - Turbobricks Forums

some nice technical info:

stock air box w/ stock filter Vs. K&N cone filter - evolutionm.net

i cant find the panel vs cone threads ive seen before, but if you search in spare time im sure you'll find someone thats posted the technical reasons why a panel filter flows alittle more than a cone...

i believe it has to do with the pleating... i would also think with a velocity stack molded into the stock air box lid coupled with a smooth pipe, it would really help the air's velocity

also with this, i guess because of the type of plastic that OEM's use for their air boxes, they resist heat better than after market metal pipes? im not sure if thats true, there are supposedly alot of talks about plastic vs metal over on the genesis forums...

and im glad you saw this 6th... i think if this works out, it would be a good option for you to offer a short pipe incase some one wants this idea as an option. i would probably get one from you sense your pipe is a larger diameter than my AEM pipe. plus your wrinkle finish it more oem lol.

i just ordered a 2.75 to 3.25 silicone reducer so i can try this out this coming week.

with seeing the stock velocity stack and this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_stack

it makes me want to do it even more
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
i also plan on using the last bit of my dei titanium wrap when i do this on my intake
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
439 Posts
I am no expert but I think that on that evo forum, maybe the MAF is not in the "right" spot on the intake, I have heard of other cars that have had issues in the past with aftermarket intakes with MAF's. Many things could affect it, if there is a bend in a different spot, it will read different. But for our cars, there is no sensor on the intake pipe, I don't think anything is read until after the turbo and it is based off of pressure (MAP), not flow(measured air/MAF)... So I think the shape of the filter will make a difference in performance. I think the performance increase will be based off size of filter/piping and how much it flows. A factory air box may flow better than the average sized cone filter but maybe a filter like 6th that is huge may flow better than both but maybe a modified air box with larger pipe and a higher flow panel filter might flow better than 6th's, who knows? But I think it is more base off of the surface area of the filter. Don't think shape would matter.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,035 Posts
I hate to sound like a nay-sayer, but take what the poster of that thread takes with a grain of salt. Due to the inherent characteristics of my profession, when someone says they don't have data and it just "works" I don't believe anything they say for a second. I like to look at data and if someone can't provide it they shouldn't be lecturing in the first place.

In response to the actual intake setup he made, it's a pretty resourceful idea. The fact that the factory panel filter difference between the turbo 4 and N/A 6 for the genesis had that extra air intake section is a cool idea to adapt to the car that doesn't have it.
Now, for outperforming another intake that leaves a lot more to be said.

Also, the factory air panel is the same size between both parts is identical. Therefore CFM flow between the two will be the same with a very small tolerance. (+/- a couple cfm)
Flow is largely determined by surface area of the filter material (provided filter material is the same).

This looks like a simple discussion that pretty much comes down to surface area. When designing a system, get the biggest air filter in there that the space allows.

This thread here is about evo owners and their discussion about intakes. This example doesn;t really apply in our case because they are talking about issues with their MAF sensor. When designing an intake that incorporates a MAF sensor, there are many more things to design around.

i cant find the panel vs cone threads ive seen before, but if you search in spare time im sure you'll find someone thats posted the technical reasons why a panel filter flows alittle more than a cone...
I have seen plenty of questions in google but no technical answers lol and I'm skimming thru threads and posts looking for references to any mentions fluid dynamic principles only to just find those mentioning just the filter's surface area.

i believe it has to do with the pleating... i would also think with a velocity stack molded into the stock air box lid coupled with a smooth pipe, it would really help the air's velocity

also with this, i guess because of the type of plastic that OEM's use for their air boxes, they resist heat better than after market metal pipes? im not sure if thats true, there are supposedly alot of talks about plastic vs metal over on the genesis forums...
Velocity stacks are nice to have. Every little bit helps. Not having them isn't too much of a big deal though. If it can be cheaply incorporated into the system I'm all for it.

Without getting too nerdy, I would say a velocity stack is a sort of improvement to what you call a minor loss in a pipe system. In this case it's what is called a 'sudden contraction.'

In fluid dynamics there is a loss coefficient for equations when determining losses in pipe systems. This is the coefficient K and this value is used in conjunction with Moody friction loss calculations in piping systems.
Luckily I still have my Fluid Dynamics book from college and there is a chapter on this very subject and in this chapter there is a graph that plots K in relation to a radiused corner/pipe diameter. It does show that just a small radius goes a long way in helping in losses.
If the radius is only 20% of pipe diameter, K would be about 0.05 which is considered a negligible loss.

and im glad you saw this 6th... i think if this works out, it would be a good option for you to offer a short pipe incase some one wants this idea as an option. i would probably get one from you sense your pipe is a larger diameter than my AEM pipe. plus your wrinkle finish it more oem lol.

i just ordered a 2.75 to 3.25 silicone reducer so i can try this out this coming week.

with seeing the stock velocity stack and this

Velocity stack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it makes me want to do it even more
I would want to see a system that is thoroughly tested and validated with a dyno comparison, vacuum readings at the turbocharger and temperature readings.
I personally think a system of this nature would benefit from the increased pipe size but might be hindered in further performance due to stock filter size.

Would it perform better than stock? In my opinion, absolutely. By how much, I cannot tell off the bat. It would definitely have to be built and tested.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I see one in front of the battery. is that the turbo socks one?

intake looks cool. I want to do a FMIC so bad. lol

only issue and not really an issue is I believe the stock IC area is a perfect place for the oil cooler... but with your air filter there, it seems be occupying the space instead...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
  • Like
Reactions: mr_sippi_forte

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,021 Posts
They have them for 99 a can for the v2. Offer on 2 of them for 160
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
not to venture too far, but ive been trying to find information on people test the plastic that OEM's use for their intakes vs metal intakes... plus the corrugated stuff vs smooth pipes...

it seems that Honda people started gravitating to just upgrading the corrugated elbow to a smooth elbow for some time thus keeping the stock air box...

I am planning on wrapping my stock intake with the remaining DEI titanium that I have.

also it would probably beneficial also to wrap the stock aluminum elbow coming off of the turbo that attaches to the intake or at least jet hot coating it or something.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,021 Posts
I am getting exhaust wrap probably today or tomorrow to wrap my cai with. It will help with heat but not sure how much
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
advance auto has a 50ft roll of the DEI titanium for 30$ I think it is...

autozone only has a 50$ roll that's the standard white/off white color

with searching about the plastic vs metal, it seems there more in favor of the plastic intake... so maybe my idea of the plastic air box shielding the intake and wrapping the aluminum pipe will be a good solution.

also it seems there are decent reviews on the VMS catch cans... I would probably go with the VMS just for money for now and replace the site tube with 2 short bolts to reduce the chance of leaks

after searching around at catch cans, im liking the Moroso 85474
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,021 Posts
Plastic i think it doesnt get as hot as the metal. My dad has a k&n setup on his 300c and it is plastic
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
not to venture too far, but ive been trying to find information on people test the plastic that OEM's use for their intakes vs metal intakes... plus the corrugated stuff vs smooth pipes...

it seems that Honda people started gravitating to just upgrading the corrugated elbow to a smooth elbow for some time thus keeping the stock air box...

I am planning on wrapping my stock intake with the remaining DEI titanium that I have.

also it would probably beneficial also to wrap the stock aluminum elbow coming off of the turbo that attaches to the intake or at least jet hot coating it or something.
Would you really wrap that piece off the turbo, though? That would trap all that heat in, right where the air goes, eh?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,021 Posts
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top