[honhon]

I posted this on another forum, but i figured i should post it here to help the other turbo's out there

Hey all, just got done with this.. although as you watch and read, you'll see im not 100% done as of typing this, but the part that's the 1% doesn't have any affect on my putting this up for everyone's enjoyment.

So.... after searching endlessly, i determined that the engine bays for the new 14 Koup and the Veloster turbo are pretty similar in design since they share the same power train...

I decided to drop some coin on an AEM CAI for a veloster turbo being sold by a shop on ebay stating that a customer changed their mind prior to their appointment so they were just trying to unload it... i got it with free shipping and for about 30$ less than the veloster AEM intakes are going for on ebay... not a super great deal, but better than paying the usual 260$ plus possible shipping.

But anways…

Tools needed, I used a pair of needle nose pliers for the breather and bypass hoses… other than that… its just an 8mm and a 10mm socket, I used a ¼ ratchet and a long extension for the air box bolts and that was it… pretty simple

Here is the contents out of the box:



Next here is the un-molested as of yet 14 Koup T-GDI:



Next here is the unmolested engine bay, lets start with the engine cover:





Next pull back the bypass hose and vent hose clips on the stock tube and you can disconnect them:




Next push the inside of the snorkel clips in and they will click, then you can remove them, this will help later on when trying to remove the air box:




Next you can either use a Philips screw driver or a 10mm socket, loosen the clamp at the air box then there are 3 more at the turbo inlet, notice how someone decided to put one backwards… also you can see there is a silencer for the turbo on the inlet also:




Heres the screw/bolt all the way out which does help depending on how many miles your car has the rubber does get stuck with age and slight tension on the clamp can cause a ton of issues for you, so I always loosen them all the way:



Now wiggle the intake tube out, heres a comparison to the aem, note the silencer:



Heres a picture of the turbo inlet elbow, to me it probably would have made more sense to either have the intake on the p/s of the car or have the turbo spin the other way so you don’t have this huge elbow straight out of the inlet:



Next air box lid:



Air filter out, then followed by the 3 air box bolts, 10mm each:






Its good to have a magnet for deep places like the front air box bolt:




Air box and snorkel come out as one piece:



And the empty space left behind:

 

[honhon]

part 2

Heres a shot of the stock bypass valve, it appears there may be just enough room for the forge motorsport OEM replacement one, but I need to call them and ask the height of their unit:



Next you’ll notice a difference between the veloster and the forte… the forte has no lower air box like the veloster does… so that means the install can go A LOT quicker:



Rubber mounts installed… I couldn’t find my Loctite, but I would recommend loctiting them into the body bolts:



Turbo inlet clamps and coupler:



To get the upper tube sit the way I wanted it to I bent the first bracket alittle to my liking:




Turbo inlet coupler and clamps lightly secured:



Just for giggles I hooked up the breather and the bypass hose:



Heres the orientation that I placed the lower tube into from my best guess from the crappy printing in the AEM instructions:



Joining coupler, clamps and 2nd mount loosely in place:



Overall shot:



Next lets, lay down to put the filter in from the bottom:



2 plastic nut-serts are easily removed with a phillips or the flathead screwdriver like I used for the push clips for the snorkel above:



Peel it out of the way, ive cracked one of these before, so treat it well, but it can take alittle:



From underneath (I already disconnected my fog light connector in preparation for the air filter install, it’s the white connector towards the middle bottom of the picture):



Heres the ground wire I turned slightly for the intake tube to come through, I need to touch up the scratch:



Heres the air filter installed:





only cleanup, is to put the engine cover back on and tighten all the 8mm clamps and the 10mm mounting stud bolts and the 2 nut serts for the bottom splash guard.

The air filter is massive on this kit… they probably could have gone alittle smaller, on my koup its pushing against the splash guard and the fog light alittle, this was the 1% part I was speaking about above… im searching for the k&N SN-2580. Which is a smaller cone filter with the same size mounting as the AEM filter… it should fit better.
So there it is…. With a smaller filter it would have fit perfectly… but with the chance I took, I think it came out well… I just need to either order the sn2580 off ebay or have my local autozone order it for me and get it to me… either way, its about 50$

Not really a big deal… but oh well… I can probably sell the AEM filter once I swap the filter out and make some money back…

Thanks for looking… happy modding……

 

[Norrie]

Great post. Thanks mate!

 

[6thElementEngineering]

Very nice and very helpful!

How does the intake feel? AEM chose 2.75" diameter piping and I'm wondering why, when they could have made more power and achieved a more optimum pressure ratio for the turbo with larger than stock pipe.

Be aware too, there is a possibility of performance loss of going to a smaller filter. I'm not sure how much, but hopefully it's negligible.

 

[honhon]

Very nice and very helpful!

How does the intake feel? AEM chose 2.75" diameter piping and I'm wondering why, when they could have made more power and achieved a more optimum pressure ratio for the turbo with larger than stock pipe.

Be aware too, there is a possibility of performance loss of going to a smaller filter. I'm not sure how much, but hopefully it's negligible.

I thought of this also, but the air still has to go into the pipe... so I was thinking even if the end of the pipe was covered by air filter material, it should still get the same amount of air flow which would make the size of the air filter negligible?

I may be way off on this but, its the idea I was thinking of..... but im not sure because im not an engineer

with this idea it would stay true if you were to run no air filter that you should get a power increase?

 

[6thElementEngineering]

I thought of this also, but the air still has to go into the pipe... so I was thinking even if the end of the pipe was covered by air filter material, it should still get the same amount of air flow which would make the size of the air filter negligible?

I may be way off on this but, its the idea I was thinking of..... but im not sure because im not an engineer

with this idea it would stay true if you were to run no air filter that you should get a power increase?

When dealing with turbochargers, NO air filter and no intake system is the ideal power delivery option.

Turbos are designed to deliver a certain amount of air at certain pressures. You pick the turbo you want based on its Compressor Map. Here is an example pulled from Garrett's website.

You will see on the y-axis on the left hand side of the graph, the value for pressure ratio.
That value is defined as absolute outlet pressure (boost) divided by absolute inlet pressure (pressure in your intake system).

Atmospheric pressure is defined as 14.7 psia. If you have an open turbocharger inlet, with no intake system, you are sucking in 14.7 psia.
For example, we boost anywhere from 12-16 psi of boost on our car. For simplicity, let's just say 16 psi. That would be an absolute output pressure of 30.7 psia. (16+14.7)

Now, we divide 30.7 by 14.7, and that equals 2.09. Using the graph above, look just above 2 and follow that across the graph. You will see that as airflow increases as you go right, our pressure ration of 2.09 puts us on different parts of the map. The goal is to land on the highest efficiency portions.

Every time we add a pipe, a bent pipe, a coupler, and an air filter, we create a restriction to air flow. This will reduce our effective absolute inlet pressure, and negatively change our placement on the compressor map.

With that being said, the general rule of thumb is to have the shortest, biggest, least restrictive intake system that also protects the engine from sucking in debris.
So engineers then have to make the right system that works best with all the variables.

The best example is cold air vs short ram. Cold air gets you better temps, but add restriction. Short ram has less restrictions, but brings in hotter air.

And I bet this is why AEM puts a big filter on. The piping is no bigger than the stock tube, and it's got a lot of bends. They are just trying to keep the pressure ratio optimum with the system they built.

Hope this helps!

 

[honhon]

wouldn't the air pressure be related to the sea level rather than the size of the air filter?

regardless of the size of the air filter, you'll still have the same pressure. I still may be looking at it wrong

 

[6thElementEngineering]

wouldn't the air pressure be related to the sea level rather than the size of the air filter?

regardless of the size of the air filter, you'll still have the same pressure. I still may be looking at it wrong

You are right that atmospheric pressure changes at elevation too! Sea level is definitely ideal for making the most power.
When an air filter is introduced to a fluid system, it creates a restriction. This restriction affects turbo performance.

A smaller air filter creates a bigger restriction on the system. Meaning the engine has to try to suck in air through a smaller medium, much like trying to suck in air through a smaller straw vs a larger one.

In your case, you are choosing a smaller air filter for better fitment. Depending on the size, you may affect performance.
Will it be enough to feel? Probably not, as there are a number of other variables that affect performance in a greater way than a slight air filter change.

I just wanted you to keep that in mind

Also, air filter media has a BIG factor on this as well. A couple years ago, I was part of a test group on using different filters on an intake system to see which one had the best number.
All were the same size. Some were oiled media, some were dry. All different brands,

The AEM dryflow was at the top, performing the best. If i remember correctly the other were from K&N, Green Filter, a random Chinese Knock-off, and a couple others.

 

[honhon]

I actually found AEM's filters on their page and I ordered a dry flow with the specs I wanted through a place from fort Lauderdale, hopefully ill get it Monday or Tuesday.

anyways... the straw analogy would compare the size of the piping though right? not what's on the tip of the straw. I'm just trying to understand this as best as possible.

 

[6thElementEngineering]

I actually found AEM's filters on their page and I ordered a dry flow with the specs I wanted through a place from fort Lauderdale, hopefully ill get it Monday or Tuesday.

anyways... the straw analogy would compare the size of the piping though right? not what's on the tip of the straw. I'm just trying to understand this as best as possible.

The straw analogy applies to pipe size more, but the same principles apply lol.

@itsjustme is right. All you have to do is measure! But the general rules of thumb help us to not have to do that lol.

Hopefully the new filter fits the way you want! I'm sure you'll be just fine.

 

[honhon]

i think its on the tip of my tongue that I should understand it... and I was trying to search online for various statements pertaining to it and the closest I came to was people talking about a pancake filter on a chevelle SS, but in that case, that would be different for the simple fact that you are reducing the surface area around the filter by getting a shorter filter, which is directly attached to the carb...

I wonder what the flow characteristics would be if you put an element just straight across the inlet of the pipe... like for dyno purposes

and with the recommendation above, I understand that meaning, I had a dual carb motorcycle before... I guess it could be see if there is a pressure change between the 2 filters but I think that would be more along the material in the filter....

but im not sure...

 

[honhon]

heres a rotary thread

air filter size effect on power - RX7Club.com

it seems with the info that ive been coming across that if its a good quality filter to begin with, its less of an issue... but more of an issue if your going from say a large K&N to a cheapo filter... but that's the point of an intake to begin with lol

 

[honhon]

I found this:

K&N Air Filter Facts You Should Know

go down to filter selection:

CI for the 1.6 is: 28.112

outside diameter of the filter is: 6inches

im getting 2.42 inches if someone wants to check my math

im doing peak power at 6000 RPM

air filter height is 5.25 inches

 

[6thElementEngineering]

23.42 sq.in @5000 rpm you need to convert 1.6 liters to cubic inches (97.64). The only problem with that is it's for naturally aspirated engines and the 1.6 turbo uses at least 3x the air of a 1.6 NA engine.

Now take this filter for ex. AEM 21-202DK DryFlow Air Filter
6" base/B
5.125" top/T
5.25" height/H
get your average diameter BxT/2=diameter (in this case 5.5625) then diameter x 3.14 (17.46625) x H = 91.7 - .75 for the thickness of rubber top and bottom of filter you get a filter with 90.95 sq in of filter media which would be sufficient for the [email protected] rpm with a few upgrade mods maybe a turbo upgrade, change boost, fuel, and cam timing maps in a ecu tune and your filter would be maxed out.
The reason I am waiting so patiently (cough) for the 3.5" CAI just so down the road when I get closer to my goal I won't need to upgrade again. If someone is just looking for a few bolt on mods and that's it this won't be that big of an issue.

I heard that cough lol. Just a little bit longer

 

[honhon]

im only planning bolt ons, so ill probably be good then... i only see an intercooler, down pipe and exhaust as far as engine performance in the future

forge BOV, springs, enkei rpf-1's shifter bushings, shifter and then odds and ends from there...

 

[MidNight446]

The long and short of all this great info is that all the motor wants is to suck air in the turbo inlet and blow it out the exhaust. Anything that slows this down on our small turbo high rev motor will cause a loss in engine response.

 

[[email protected]]

Did the forge motorsport fit in the blov location

 

[honhon]

i havent been able to try it, i havent really pursued it really either, kinda waiting on a FMIC kit that'll replace everything

 

[mikex.18]

I compared the TURBOXS an Forge.. and the forge is a bit taller..

And the turboxs is a really tight fit

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