Also over the time you own the car your going to pay double or trupple for the maintenance on a vw. I have had 2 and the cost of parts are insane. I love my forte 5 and never even looked at the gti for that reason. I think the 5 is a hot hatch. I can pull on some of the other hot hatches. Now that i am tuned it is a super close match with the more performance oriented hatches
Forte 5 SX - almost a GTI for 81% of the price?
Prior to buying my new Forte5, I read a lot of reviews. The car magazines really like to hate on the Forte and it seams like they don't really give it a fair shot. I understand that the steering might not provide the feedback that a GTI does, but at the end of the day it has almost as much power as the GTI, runs sport tuned McPherson struts up front, has 18 inch wheels, has dual exhaust, and can run the quarter mile in 14.9 seconds. The magazines like to say that the SX isn't a hot hatch because it doesn't compare to the GTI; however, the only GTIs they have tested are loaded up with the Performance Package ($1,495 option) and optional summer sport tires. I am willing to bet that if they compared the SX to the standard 210hp GTI with all season tires, it would be a much closer match. The Performance Package adds 10hp and a limited slip differential. Motor Trend got the automatic GTI (With the Performance Package) to run a 14.5 second 1/4 mile. The same car pulled 0.92g on the skidpad with summer tires. It would likely still best the Kia in both tests without the options, but I am willing to bet it would be much closer. A 10hp loss would bring the GTI's 1/4 mile time to roughly 14.7 seconds and I am sure that the skidpad performance would drop below 0.90g with all season tires. Apples to apples, I think the Kia's performance would be within striking distance of the GTI without the Performance Package or summer sport tires.
Performance asside, the GTI SE has a few features the Kia doesn't. These include rain sensing wipers, a panoramic sun roof, torque vectoring, independent rear suspension, selective driving modes, 8 speaker sound system (vs 6 speakers), adaptive headlights (turn with the car). However, the Kia also has a list of features not offered by VW. These features include 10 way driver seat adjustment (vs 8 on the GTI SE), cooled driver seat, heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, auto folding side mirrors, auto dimming rear view mirror, Homelink built in garage door system, memory settings for the driver seat, adjustable steering feel, and dual climate control.
Everything else on these cars matches up pretty evenly. Both have push button start, both have 18 inch wheels, both have HID headlights, both have LED tail lights, both have dual exhaust, both have side mirror turn signals, both have cruise control, both have paddle shifters (automatic), both have sport tuned McPherson struts up front.
As far as warranties go, Kia definetely has the upper hand.. VW offers a 3 year/36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 5 year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty. Kia offers a 5 year/60,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty. Kia's warranty also comes with free roadside assistance.
Then comes the price. I just paid $23,863 for mine, which has an automatic transmission, the tech package, the premium package, and push button start (not sure if this is standard with the tech package). A GTI SE, with an automatic transmission and the lighting package (HIDs) would cost me $29,607 with Costco pricing.
Long story short, the Kia costs almost 20% less than a comparable GTI, but has almost as much performance and has a much longer warranty. Magazines love to hate Kias, but 0.85g roadholding on allseasons and a 14.9 second quarter mile seem like hot hatch numbers to me. Compare it to the last gen GTI and the match gets even closer.
Just my 2 cents.
Performance asside, the GTI SE has a few features the Kia doesn't. These include rain sensing wipers, a panoramic sun roof, torque vectoring, independent rear suspension, selective driving modes, 8 speaker sound system (vs 6 speakers), adaptive headlights (turn with the car). However, the Kia also has a list of features not offered by VW. These features include 10 way driver seat adjustment (vs 8 on the GTI SE), cooled driver seat, heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, auto folding side mirrors, auto dimming rear view mirror, Homelink built in garage door system, memory settings for the driver seat, adjustable steering feel, and dual climate control.
Everything else on these cars matches up pretty evenly. Both have push button start, both have 18 inch wheels, both have HID headlights, both have LED tail lights, both have dual exhaust, both have side mirror turn signals, both have cruise control, both have paddle shifters (automatic), both have sport tuned McPherson struts up front.
As far as warranties go, Kia definetely has the upper hand.. VW offers a 3 year/36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 5 year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty. Kia offers a 5 year/60,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty. Kia's warranty also comes with free roadside assistance.
Then comes the price. I just paid $23,863 for mine, which has an automatic transmission, the tech package, the premium package, and push button start (not sure if this is standard with the tech package). A GTI SE, with an automatic transmission and the lighting package (HIDs) would cost me $29,607 with Costco pricing.
Long story short, the Kia costs almost 20% less than a comparable GTI, but has almost as much performance and has a much longer warranty. Magazines love to hate Kias, but 0.85g roadholding on allseasons and a 14.9 second quarter mile seem like hot hatch numbers to me. Compare it to the last gen GTI and the match gets even closer.
Just my 2 cents.
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@Pw3669 - That's a great post. I too did a huge amount of due diligence before getting my Koup, and was always frustrated by the apparent snobbery associated with a lot of the reviews for the Koup (my wife has had two Sorentos so I already had first hand experience with how good Kia really is). Not too many of the reviews I saw of the GTI, for example, mentioned the world wide recall VW had for their DSG gearbox problem, and interestingly enough a number of second hand GTIs were being sold with new engines after having had their original engines replaced under warranty. A whole engine replacement - seriously?? As you have noted, the Koup has more or less the same power (close enough) and costs way less, and with much less servicing cost as Forte5 has noted. And the big plus after all of that - its uniqueness. Every man and his dog (and a number of grandmothers) drives a GTI. I've seen only one other Koup on the road (and I've had mine for nearly six months), and I see lots of people looking closely at my car wondering what it is. I am really happy with my Koup, and look forward to making her even better over the years (CAI, ECU tune etc) as she gets closer to the expiry of the warranty period (not keen to play around with her while the warranty still applies).
Welcome to the forums!! Looks like you did you research and made a great choice!! The great thing about our vehicle just as forte5 said is cost of ownership. The gti's are very nice, and the German engineering that is involved in then makes them a very nice vehicle. But cost of ownership is through the roof.Prior to buying my new Forte5, I read a lot of reviews. The car magazines really like to hate on the Forte and it seams like they don't really give it a fair shot. I understand that the steering might not provide the feedback that a GTI does, but at the end of the day it has almost as much power as the GTI, runs sport tuned McPherson struts up front, has 18 inch wheels, has dual exhaust, and can run the quarter mile in 14.9 seconds. The magazines like to say that the SX isn't a hot hatch because it doesn't compare to the GTI; however, the only GTIs they have tested are loaded up with the Performance Package ($1,495 option) and optional summer sport tires. I am willing to bet that if they compared the SX to the standard 210hp GTI with all season tires, it would be a much closer match. The Performance Package adds 10hp and a limited slip differential. Motor Trend got the automatic GTI (With the Performance Package) to run a 14.5 second 1/4 mile. The same car pulled 0.92g on the skidpad with summer tires. It would likely still best the Kia in both tests without the options, but I am willing to bet it would be much closer. A 10hp loss would bring the GTI's 1/4 mile time to roughly 14.7 seconds and I am sure that the skidpad performance would drop below 0.90g with all season tires. Apples to apples, I think the Kia's performance would be within striking distance of the GTI without the Performance Package or summer sport tires.
Performance asside, the GTI SE has a few features the Kia doesn't. These include rain sensing wipers, a panoramic sun roof, torque vectoring, independent rear suspension, selective driving modes, 8 speaker sound system (vs 6 speakers), adaptive headlights (turn with the car). However, the Kia also has a list of features not offered by VW. These features include 10 way driver seat adjustment (vs 8 on the GTI SE), cooled driver seat, heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, auto folding side mirrors, auto dimming rear view mirror, Homelink built in garage door system, memory settings for the driver seat, adjustable steering feel, and dual climate control.
Everything else on these cars matches up pretty evenly. Both have push button start, both have 18 inch wheels, both have HID headlights, both have LED tail lights, both have dual exhaust, both have side mirror turn signals, both have cruise control, both have paddle shifters (automatic), both have sport tuned McPherson struts up front.
As far as warranties go, Kia definetely has the upper hand.. VW offers a 3 year/36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 5 year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty. Kia offers a 5 year/60,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty. Kia's warranty also comes with free roadside assistance.
Then comes the price. I just paid $23,863 for mine, which has an automatic transmission, the tech package, the premium package, and push button start (not sure if this is standard with the tech package). A GTI SE, with an automatic transmission and the lighting package (HIDs) would cost me $29,607 with Costco pricing.
Long story short, the Kia costs almost 20% less than a comparable GTI, but has almost as much performance and has a much longer warranty. Magazines love to hate Kias, but 0.85g roadholding on allseasons and a 14.9 second quarter mile seem like hot hatch numbers to me. Compare it to the last gen GTI and the match gets even closer.
Just my 2 cents.
By the way, if there is anything you need just ask. Feel free to pm me or tag me and I will help to the best of my abilities.
[I am going to do my best to help people out but I can only go so far QUOTE=Forte5;4544]Also over the time you own the car your going to pay double or trupple for the maintenance on a vw. I have had 2 and the cost of parts are insane. I love my forte 5 and never even looked at the gti for that reason. I think the 5 is a hot hatch. I can pull on some of the other hot hatches. Now that i am tuned it is a super close match with the more performance oriented hatches[/QUOTE]
Preach
I love the fact that my 5door is 1 of 4 5door/koup in my area. And when I say area I mean the whole state of Pa@Pw3669 - That's a great post. I too did a huge amount of due diligence before getting my Koup, and was always frustrated by the apparent snobbery associated with a lot of the reviews for the Koup (my wife has had two Sorentos so I already had first hand experience with how good Kia really is). Not too many of the reviews I saw of the GTI, for example, mentioned the world wide recall VW had for their DSG gearbox problem, and interestingly enough a number of second hand GTIs were being sold with new engines after having had their original engines replaced under warranty. A whole engine replacement - seriously?? As you have noted, the Koup has more or less the same power (close enough) and costs way less, and with much less servicing cost as Forte5 has noted. And the big plus after all of that - its uniqueness. Every man and his dog (and a number of grandmothers) drives a GTI. I've seen only one other Koup on the road (and I've had mine for nearly six months), and I see lots of people looking closely at my car wondering what it is. I am really happy with my Koup, and look forward to making her even better over the years (CAI, ECU tune etc) as she gets closer to the expiry of the warranty period (not keen to play around with her while the warranty still applies).
I have the look at the stars again when j get to work but I'm sure it hasn't changed
This car we have is going to be a rare one. I don't think it will blow up like the Veloster did, and that even took over -a year to really hit the streets in large quantities.
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I love that our cars arent apart of the keep up with the jones's type car. Seems like when something comes out like the focus st everybody jumps ship to get the latest or think they are getting a better car. I love that when people hear the turbo they freak out because its a kia and on top of that a 5 door!
I know exactally what you meanI love that our cars arent apart of the keep up with the jones's type car. Seems like when something comes out like the focus st everybody jumps ship to get the latest or think they are getting a better car. I love that when people hear the turbo they freak out because its a kia and on top of that a 5 door!
The last cars and coffee meet I went to was packed. So when we got there I had to drive past everyone to get to my parking space. Every time I let off the gas everyone's heads would turn and they were are saying. Was that that Kia!?
Lol priceless faces
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Thanks for the warm welcome! Yeah, like many of you guys, a German car was never an option due to their high maintenance and short warranty. I am actually surprised at how uncommon the sx is. I could only find one dealer in Colorado that had an sx with leather. I still haven't seen another one on the road.
And you won't for quite a whileThanks for the warm welcome! Yeah, like many of you guys, a German car was never an option due to their high maintenance and short warranty. I am actually surprised at how uncommon the sx is. I could only find one dealer in Colorado that had an sx with leather. I still haven't seen another one on the road.
And honestly I like it that way
When I had my 8th gen si that's all I saw
Matter fact the whole crew I rolled with was 8th gen si
And that was a 31 member deep crew. So now I spend my days getting made fun of and jokes made becuase I have a kia. I know this sounds dumb but they literally kicked me out of the group. They won't let me roll with them. I really don't give a F**k becuase I am a family man and I could care less about that type of thing.
But I've already made my mark because I laid down an ass whoopin on two of the members that made the mistake of lining up with me on the highway one night when they cruising around. They were both fully bolted and base Flashpro tuned. I would say I had about 3/4 car leangh on both pulls . That was with my 1 tune
Anyway, sorry for the rambling.
As I have said before. Anything you need please just ask. We are all family here and run a tight ship. We do our best not to come against one another or put eachother down. Yea we pick fun or make jokes, but in the end it's all out of fun. If you want the best for your forte just make sure to listen to what the senior members and members with 1st hand experience have to say and you will be good to go
There are some very big things happening behind the scenes, so keep an eye out.
Max
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Well i'm glad you did your research.. and you are rite.. Kia and Hyundai's get a lot of hell in the media as performance cars.. some times the numbers pan out.. the shifting issue in the Gen Coups.. is a real thing that slowed down the cars.. I think it comes down to how the car makes you feel.. I to test drive the 2015 gti.. and I loved the premium feel of the car.. but that car is not making 200 hp.. its closer to 260hp..
the posted numbers are cute but performance data is rite on.. Most Audi and Vw drive trains are sandbagging numbers.. this is not a ploy to.. this the way German rate there cars.. the numbers posted are the worst possible for that drive train can make.. its like the number that car would make on the hottest day in the thinnest airwith crappy south African gas. most companies do it the other way. . post the best number..
power gives a feel of quality.. so even the so called low powered German cars.. give you a little more most days.. its great advertisement..
Kia is just honest about what it is.. a high content car at a good price.. there is some cost cutting.. like most cars in our price range.. just look out how cheap the Fiesta st or civic si interior are.. they all post great numbers but its a shit box inside..
TLDR
Driving the Forte5 just makes me feel better than the GT I.. I have seen plenty of the new GTi's.. on the road I even got mistaken by a Jag guy for one.. They are the bench mark hot hatch.. just like the Si is the bench mark Sport compact car.. and the BMW 3 is the bench mark performance sedan.. And the mustang is the original pony car.. I like to be different..
the posted numbers are cute but performance data is rite on.. Most Audi and Vw drive trains are sandbagging numbers.. this is not a ploy to.. this the way German rate there cars.. the numbers posted are the worst possible for that drive train can make.. its like the number that car would make on the hottest day in the thinnest airwith crappy south African gas. most companies do it the other way. . post the best number..
power gives a feel of quality.. so even the so called low powered German cars.. give you a little more most days.. its great advertisement..
Kia is just honest about what it is.. a high content car at a good price.. there is some cost cutting.. like most cars in our price range.. just look out how cheap the Fiesta st or civic si interior are.. they all post great numbers but its a shit box inside..
TLDR
Driving the Forte5 just makes me feel better than the GT I.. I have seen plenty of the new GTi's.. on the road I even got mistaken by a Jag guy for one.. They are the bench mark hot hatch.. just like the Si is the bench mark Sport compact car.. and the BMW 3 is the bench mark performance sedan.. And the mustang is the original pony car.. I like to be different..
My dealership didn't even know they are turbo till I told them to get me one. I didn't even know they were turbo and I work for kia lol. My place had to go Pitt to get mine. We now have 2 (5 and koup) sitting on our lot
I love how the 5 is different. Around here in socal the dealer said they are mainly selling the koup sx and ex. I have yet to come up on another sx around here. Its nice to know that when i walk out the door i dont see tons of them if any around.
After some research, you are definitely right about the German cars. The last gen GTI's were rated at 200hp, but almost every stock GTI dyno I could find online reported mid 190's to 205 whp. In some cases, stock whp was higher than the factory rated hp. That definitely puts the new GTI in the 250-260 crank hp range. The dyno's for our cars seem to be right on the money, 160-180 whp. Civic SI's seem to be dynoing in even with our cars. It looks like Ford is sandbagging a bit with the new STs. The HP on the new Fiesta is coming in at around 184 whp (which is a bit high compared to the factory rating of 197hp). C&D got 220+ lbft of torque at the wheels out of the stock Fiesta! The car is rated at 201 lbft. No wonder all of the car mags love it. The Focus was a bit high as well.
Honestly, steering feel aside, our cars are almost dead even with the current gen Civic SI in handling and acceleration. That is at sea level of course. In Denver, where I live, an SI is going to need a fair amount of performance enhancers to keep up with my SX!
Last little side note: The magazines like to call the Kia a warm hatch, but that is only true if you compare it to the muscled up hot-hatches of today. I remember in high school my buddy used to drive us around in his moms 2001 Mustang GT and we thought it was [email protected] That car ran a 14.7 sec quarter mile at sea level. Our cars are only 2 tenths behind that! Here in Denver that v8 mustang would be looking at the SX's tail lights. If you go back to the previous gen mustang gt from 1996, the SX is not only faster but has nearly as many hp at the wheels. Yes it is not fair to compare newer cars to the cars of the 90's and early 2000's, but the chances are pretty good that we will see one of those at a stoplight. I am sure the owners of those mustangs still view them as fast cars.
It is all relative and there will always be something faster, but I think Kia really made this car a fun jack-of-all trades.
Another side note (sorry for rambling): I was listening to Autoblog this morning and one of the testers mentioned that he was testing a $52K BMW 3 series that didn't have HID's, LED tail lights, or full leather trim. Pretty awesome that Kia makes features like that affordable enough for peasants like myself.
Honestly, steering feel aside, our cars are almost dead even with the current gen Civic SI in handling and acceleration. That is at sea level of course. In Denver, where I live, an SI is going to need a fair amount of performance enhancers to keep up with my SX!
Last little side note: The magazines like to call the Kia a warm hatch, but that is only true if you compare it to the muscled up hot-hatches of today. I remember in high school my buddy used to drive us around in his moms 2001 Mustang GT and we thought it was [email protected] That car ran a 14.7 sec quarter mile at sea level. Our cars are only 2 tenths behind that! Here in Denver that v8 mustang would be looking at the SX's tail lights. If you go back to the previous gen mustang gt from 1996, the SX is not only faster but has nearly as many hp at the wheels. Yes it is not fair to compare newer cars to the cars of the 90's and early 2000's, but the chances are pretty good that we will see one of those at a stoplight. I am sure the owners of those mustangs still view them as fast cars.
It is all relative and there will always be something faster, but I think Kia really made this car a fun jack-of-all trades.
Another side note (sorry for rambling): I was listening to Autoblog this morning and one of the testers mentioned that he was testing a $52K BMW 3 series that didn't have HID's, LED tail lights, or full leather trim. Pretty awesome that Kia makes features like that affordable enough for peasants like myself.
Back when I was younger, I bought a brand new 2006 Cobalt ss and my first race was a early 2000s mustang gt... we rolled a few pulls on the highway and I always slowly pulled away from him.... by 3rd time my friend in car said he was beating on his dash as I was pulling away..... I think back in those days, all the "fast" cars were the muscle cars and the imports like supra, 300zx, rx7, skylines.... nobody really knew about the cobalt ss and srt4 and other factory boosted tuner cars....
The old turbo eclipses were about as fast as us..but we so far dont have to worry about crank walk.lol
I have to say that as far as I was concerned a decade ago the only thing I could think of worse to drive than a kia was a modified one. In the last five or so years though the Korean marques have really, REALLY been upping their game. Now is the time as far as I'm concerned. Get in on the ground floor. There has to be some good reasons that kia racing is consistently winning in the pirelli world challenge. Car media will retain prejudices for a good long while but it is very evident that things are changing. The propaganda machine will encourage people to stick with what they "know" (and spend more money doing it) while free thinking, daresay, adventurous types will have more freedom and willingness to make the easier and bolder choice by being less conventional. And guess what? These kia turbos (optima too...wow) are special but I for one hope that it remains a small minority that actually sees things for what they are. I like a little exclusivity
I agree. Most people will follow what others say is the best because they dont want to be different. I love my KIA and love to be different. Shoot i even modded a rio and my soul. My soul did get a lot of props for. Now people give me the bird when i fly by them and they find out its a KIA.
I really like how they are coming out with really nice competitive cars. I like being different instead of being apart of the "crowd"
I really like how they are coming out with really nice competitive cars. I like being different instead of being apart of the "crowd"
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