[PLP]

My point of view.

Oil change intervals depends on several factors. One of them is the oil contamination.
For our cars contamination comes from two places: PCV (GDI) and thermostat.

PCV - we know well how much stuff gets through the orifice. How much oil you get into the intake plenum. And the air must come from somewhere. Breather. So moisture gets in there. Petrol - from rich mixture. All of this stays in oil, because.... thermostat is set at 80 C. Had it been set at 90 C, which is only 10 C below boiling point of water, our oil would have been much cleaner. Petrol would evaporate, water would be gone too.
When thermostat is at 80, fans kick in at 95 or so. However, when it is set at 90, fans would kick in at 105. More or less.

Why is this engine kept so cold? I have no clue. KIA ProCeed GT (Australian equivalent of ForteSX) has thermostat set at 88 C. I find many non-US cars are running hotter.
I did put higher thermo into my Elantra (2.0, I4, NA) and since then I never ever found water on the oil cap anymore. It was only going from 82 to 85. Before then it was notoriously coldish, meaning on cold days heater on and it would drop below operating temp even after reaching it several times.

15k miles - does not sound so bad, but depends on engine. I would not really risk it here, though. And even if KIA wants A5, any fresh oil will be good than old, contaminated A5.

 

[nouse4aname]

My take on it is that the high interval oil holds up to that contamination better as it is formulated to expect that....just on a typical car you would approach those levels at 15k but they know ours is dirty enough to get there in 3k with the severe schedule essentially specified for most driving in the US.

 

[Forte5]

Our cars run at 180-205 temps. If you put a lower T-stat in like I did the car will run like crap and always think its not at operating temps.

I can say being here in cali with a custom SRI and lower intake pipe my oil is dirty by 3k miles. After my break in period I am going to send my oil off to blackstone to see how everything is. I was running PUP with the lucas pure synthetic additive and she was running great but now I am going to switch.

 

[Gaijiin]

The 1.6T is a hot little bastard.
It is tuned for a 180 t stat. A lower T stat would require tuning for that specifically, if you want it to run decently.

Tuned 1.6's need additional heat dumping capacity. This can and is accomplished by oil coolers and fans. The car will still run the CVVT values at or above 180F. Excess heat will be dumped, and overall heat soak will be prevented so the car won't "pull" timing.

The extra oil loop should be controlled by a thermostat driven sandwhich plate (opens at 195 F). The oil cooler itself should have a high powered SPAL fan that is activated remotely under the circumstances.

 

[PLP]

Our cars run at 180-205 temps. If you put a lower T-stat in like I did the car will run like crap and always think its not at operating temps.

The 1.6T is a hot little bastard.
It is tuned for a 180 t stat. A lower T stat would require tuning for that specifically, if you want it to run decently.

Guys, you got me completely wrong. Gaijiin, it is not hot. Not even close...

I am saying the car is running on the colder side. 80 C is 176 F, while 82 C is 180 F (thermostat is rated at 80 C or 82 C - I can say for sure that it opens at 82 C and allows the coolant to drop to 78 C before closing completely - that is according to the car's temperature probe). Then, it opens at max at 90 C (194 F) and fan kicks in at 95 C (203 F).

My comparison was for same engine in Cee'd GT. According to its thermostat it opens at 90 C. That is 8 C degrees higher (or 14 F as you wish) that ours. Hence, allowing the internals to get hotter and keep the engine and oil cleaner.

And my personal experience is that in Elantra it helped a lot with condensation. I am not sure about other stuff, though. However, I would guess that oil would be less diluted with petrol as well. Therefore, I am thinking of changing it to a higher one. Say 85 C, just like I did in Elantra. Since it works on Cee'd, why wouldn't it work on ours?

 

[Gaijiin]

Guys, you got me completely wrong. Gaijiin, it is not hot. Not even close...

I am saying the car is running on the colder side. 80 C is 176 F, while 82 C is 180 F (thermostat is rated at 80 C or 82 C - I can say for sure that it opens at 82 C and allows the coolant to drop to 78 C before closing completely - that is according to the car's temperature probe). Then, it opens at max at 90 C (194 F) and fan kicks in at 95 C (203 F).

My comparison was for same engine in Cee'd GT. According to its thermostat it opens at 90 C. That is 8 C degrees higher (or 14 F as you wish) that ours. Hence, allowing the internals to get hotter and keep the engine and oil cleaner.

And my personal experience is that in Elantra it helped a lot with condensation. I am not sure about other stuff, though. However, I would guess that oil would be less diluted with petrol as well. Therefore, I am thinking of changing it to a higher one. Say 85 C, just like I did in Elantra. Since it works on Cee'd, why wouldn't it work on ours?

Hey dude my coments were in general not geared at yours. I merely stating this 1.6 T stock can heatsoak like a bitch. Tuning and bigger turbo just magnify it. Thats all.
No argument here.

Point of my post is oil can be a secondary cooling loop. Rmember its the oil that takes the bulk of the heat of the turbo itself, even though there is a coolant line also.

 

[Forte5]

Honestly I wouldn't put a higher temp t-stat in because the eco would freak out and you would have to be tuned for that also. I would think it should run cooler because with this motor it looses power when temps get to high. I understand what your saying though to keep the oil cleaner with higher temp t-stat

 

[PLP]

Hey dude my coments were in general not geared at yours. I merely stating this 1.6 T stock can heatsoak like a bitch. Tuning and bigger turbo just magnify it. Thats all.
No argument here.

Point of my post is oil can be a secondary cooling loop. Rmember its the oil that takes the bulk of the heat of the turbo itself, even though there is a coolant line also.

I see now.

Honestly I wouldn't put a higher temp t-stat in because the eco would freak out and you would have to be tuned for that also. I would think it should run cooler because with this motor it looses power when temps get to high. I understand what your saying though to keep the oil cleaner with higher temp t-stat

I get that. That is a kind of risk... But just for the discussion.
Engine operating temperature is range of 80 C to 95 C according to thermostat specs. Hence, I would presume putting 85 C would make the low end a bit higher, especially for winter, yet not altering the top end.

Then, why ours are 82 C while Ceed is 88 C? It seems to be same engine, same power output, yet thermo is different.
Therefore, if this one can stand higher temps - what spark plugs it uses? What else is different that makes it OK in hotter temp?

 

[2014Forte5]

My last oil change I used non-synthetic and I'm about 4500KM. Making time for a change this week. I went to the local Walmart which has 5w-30 advertised for cheap but I look at this post on VelosterTurbo and this guy is saying stuff I have no heard before.


difference of 0w30 vs 10w30

I thought the recommendation had changed to 5W40? Certainly it's changed here, New Zealand Canada, Britain and Europe to 5W40, and Hyundai are thinking 50-weight might be the go (5W50). Someone from the US on this forum posted that Hyundai has a TSB for 5W40 in the US. In any case anythingW30 is much too thin for this car!

The veloster turbo has small diameter oil galleries to reduce oil pumping losses, so 10W is MUCH TOO THICK to flow through those small galleries when cold. This is why 5W has been specified, and almost all new engines need 0W or 5W for this reason.

Everything else being equal 0W30 will shear more than 5W30, so it will get more thinner with heat and wear. Ditto 0W40 compared to 5W40. The greater the spread of viscosity the more viscosity index improvers to cover that spread, and the more the oil will shear back towards 0W. Even full, genuine synthetic 0Wanything will need viscosity index improvers, and those VI improvers will shear.

Please what are they on about? W40 now?

 

[PLP]

My last oil change I used non-synthetic and I'm about 4500KM. Making time for a change this week. I went to the local Walmart which has 5w-30 advertised for cheap but I look at this post on VelosterTurbo and this guy is saying stuff I have no heard before.


difference of 0w30 vs 10w30



Please what are they on about? W40 now?

Both Hyundai and KIA say - 5W30 or 5W40.

To understand the difference.
The W number refers to cold oil viscosity. Meaning, pour point, flow characteristics when oil is cold. The lower the number, the less sticky it is when cold. Hence, if your winter is very cold (say -15 deg C overnight) I would go with rather 5W than 10W. If possible, even 0W.
If you are Florida, and overnight the coldest is +5 deg C - it makes no big difference as it is not cold enough to cause issues. Yet, in -15 deg C if you have 10W it will be much harder for the starter to turn the engine as opposed to 0W. Add older oil, more wear, and the "W" rating changes.

The other number 30 or 40, or even 50 as mentioned in the quoted thread - describes what happens when oil gets hot, meaning 100 deg C. The higher the number the more the oil can take.

There is no huge difference between 5W30 and 5W40. Whichever you use will be fine.
As for going 50 - well, maybe those tuned ones, or with more wear would benefit.

You see - oil is not only about viscosity. Another factor that is far more important IMO is shearing characteristics.
Shearing, in case you did not know, is a force that it takes to destroy oil film. Think of two flat pieces of glass that you put together. When you contact them they will stick, but if they are dry they will not really slide one over another. Now, add oil, or even water, a few drops, and they will slide. That what happens in the engine. There is oil film.
Now, push them hard, harder, and harder - until they start rubbing against each other.

There were dozens of tests of different oils and some are better than other.

Viscosity will only talk about wear (oil wear) and fuel consumption. Shear will talk about how well oil does its job lubricating.
Hence, if shearing forces are much higher in 5W30 than in 5W50, I would go with 5W30.

That is the very reason I use Pennzoil Platinum (silver, not gold, or black) as according to tests it had much higher forces than the "better one".



In the end - if it is very warm I would not see a problem to even have 20W50... but in order to do that I would need to compare oil pressures between coming from pump and return line.

 

[shagger]

The 5W or 10W rating you can ignore in the Summer months. They only apply in colder conditions.

 

[2014Forte5]

The 5W or 10W rating you can ignore in the Summer months. They only apply in colder conditions.

If I change my oil now, I probably won't change it again until at least October-December. I don't put on a lot of mileage on the car; mainly it's just for work and running errands. By then it will be pretty cold. I guess I should put in 5w-30 then. Waiting for Walmart to restock, grrr....

 

[PLP]

5W vs 10W - not much of a difference. What is your location? What is pretty cold on October?


Do not think the engine will get damaged by running 10W30 in October, or even starting the car at -5 deg C. If it was -30 deg C then you would see a difference...

Another consideration - mineral or synthetic?

 

[2014Forte5]

mineral or synthetic? That's the first time I've heard of it that way. I guess you mean conventional vs synthetic?

I'm going with synthetic this change, if I can find it cheaply.

I'm in Southern Ontario which can be as cold as 0c or -10c over night in November. May be not October, this global warming thing has really made a mess of weather lately.

 

[drc69]

In the "old" days oil was either paraffin or mineral "base" oil. Pennzoil was paraffin and Castrol was mineral. Just 2 examples. JMO

 

[PLP]

mineral or synthetic? That's the first time I've heard of it that way. I guess you mean conventional vs synthetic?

"to-may-to to-mah-to"

That is same thing, just more or less exact name. Conventional mineral oil. That would be long, correct name. It is mineral, as it is made (by distillation) purely from crude oil (actually correct name petroleum)...
So conventional or mineral - same thing. Could be regional name (English vs American)...


So, if you have to change oil now - pour whatever you can get. Then change it early for synthetic, if you'd like. There is no harm to change oil prematurely, vs leaving it for too long.
Also, even running your oil 1000 km longer will not make any harm either, so... let's not overreact.
just make sure you have enough of it.

In the "old" days oil was either paraffin or mineral "base" oil. Pennzoil was paraffin and Castrol was mineral. Just 2 examples. JMO

You are basically saying same thing. lol
Paraffin comes from same - petroleum. Paraffin is only a cleaner state of heavier hydrocarbons. Some used paraffin name to call Kerosene... so even more confusion.

 

[valleyracer]

mineral or synthetic? That's the first time I've heard of it that way. I guess you mean conventional vs synthetic?

I'm going with synthetic this change, if I can find it cheaply.

I'm in Southern Ontario which can be as cold as 0c or -10c over night in November. May be not October, this global warming thing has really made a mess of weather lately.

Several very good deals are available in Synthetic (but don't foget a GOOD filter) motor oils - Walmart sells a synthetic in several viscosities (depends on the store etc) under$20 for 5 qts and Oreilly/Kragen sells a 5qt synthetic for $20ish and not always, but lots of times AutoZone will have their house synthetic for $22 for 5 qts
I'm virtually certain all 3 oils come from the same small refinery in the Gulf Coast.

 

[shagger]

I usually refer to conventional oil as "Dino oil" meaning it comes from the dinosaurs...

Courtesy of BOBISTHEOILGUY.

DINO OIL
Dino oil begins with a base material which is separated from other various crude oil cuts by its boiling range. Various components in crude oil boil off at different temperatures, and material from various ranges goes to a variety of end products such as: kerosene, gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, lube oils, asphalt, etc.

The point being that dino oil base is not a particular chemical species, but a myriad of species, with the only thing in common a similar boiling range. Once this crude cut is split fine enough to be a particular type of lube oil - say automotive engine oil targeted for a particular viscosity range - various additive packages are added. Some of these additive packages are viscosity improvers, corrosion inhibitors and additives to improve filming.

A common process in the refining of crude oil is called "cracking". In this process, big molecules are heated and "cracked" into smaller molecules. The smaller molecules vaporize and are condensed and collected for further processing. When this happens, the various bits left behind can react with each other and form cross-linked molecules, tars, that are resistant to cracking, but are also not good at lubrication. This chemical reaction takes place to oil in your engine. Light components are generated which boil off, and tars are generated and left behind. Eventually the reaction can continue to the point of making varnishes; not like you put on your sailboat, but really heavy junk that solidifies in cooler areas of the engine on various engine parts.

Changing your oil not only removes the acids and other combustion by-products that have collected in the oil, but it also allows for removal of broken down oil.

SYNTHETIC OIL
Synthetic oils are developed in the laboratory- from man made orgainc esters and other synthesized hydrocarbons to provide the exact characteristics desired. These "designer" oils include no impurities, at least when poured from the can. Impurities, of course, can appear during combustion.
Synthetic oil is more expensive because it has to be manufactured rather than just separated from a crude cut.

It can be run for longer periods of time between oil changes because it has better thermal stability. The Mobil 1 commercials where they put dino oil and synthetic oil in pans and cook them until the dino oil breaks down are not hype.

So should you run longer intervals with synthetic oil? Well, there are still going to be acids and other combustion products in the sump over time. These are not removed by a filter. And even the stuff that is removed by the filter will eventually load the filter to the point that its efficiency drops and can go into a bypass mode and stop filtering. Synthetics should still be changed at reasonable intervals unless you use oil analysis.

 

[Christopaul]

Hello Everybody,

I'm new to this forum...
bought a 2017 forte5 sx 3 months and I'm hoping to beat the "failure curve" and have this car for 200K+ miles. Had first oil change at 2500 miles to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum (5w30) because its one of the few American oils that are rated ACEA A5. My average mileage before the oil change was around 27 mpg. Since the oil change its averaging around 23 mpg. Needless to say its disappointing. I searched e-bay to find Total Quartz 9000 5w30 and inadvertently bought Total Oil Quartz Ineo MC3 5W30 which I learned is rated ACEA A3 (not A5). It cost $43 for 5 quarts so I don't want to toss it, but I don't want to cause engine problems by using the wrong viscosity rated oil. Will ACEA A3 5w30 void my warranty? and will it have any potential harmful side effects?
any feedback will be appreciated!

 

[staax]

Hello Everybody,

I'm new to this forum...
bought a 2017 forte5 sx 3 months and I'm hoping to beat the "failure curve" and have this car for 200K+ miles. Had first oil change at 2500 miles to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum (5w30) because its one of the few American oils that are rated ACEA A5. My average mileage before the oil change was around 27 mpg. Since the oil change its averaging around 23 mpg. Needless to say its disappointing. I searched e-bay to find Total Quartz 9000 5w30 and inadvertently bought Total Oil Quartz Ineo MC3 5W30 which I learned is rated ACEA A3 (not A5). It cost $43 for 5 quarts so I don't want to toss it, but I don't want to cause engine problems by using the wrong viscosity rated oil. Will ACEA A3 5w30 void my warranty? and will it have any potential harmful side effects?
any feedback will be appreciated!

Hi Chris,

First of all grats on the purchase.

Second, your question is always a slippery slope and there are varying opinions on what's right and wrong.

Honestly, I think you would be absolutely fine using the oil you got for 1 OCI as long as you didn't run it for longer than what the manual specifies. I don't think it will harm your engine at all. I would recommend switching to an oil that meets the specs for your next change.

From a warranty perspective, Kia/Hyundai have been known to be very picky but the manual also states that if the oil (that meets specs) is not available in your country, use one that has the proper engine oil viscosity. Also, many Kia dealerships do not use oil that is ACEA A5 or above (my dealer uses bulk Quakerstate and none of their oils meet A5 specs - atleast not at the time I checked 2 years ago). Calling Kia/your dealership will probably be your best bet.

This thread was created to RECOMMEND what oil you use, but ultimately the decision is yours.