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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, so long story short, I'd like to do a single catch can for the breather side as I am going off this info from Tork, which makes sense to me:

"Kia and Hyundai did a great job on the factory components for these items, as soon as you start tuning or putting additional modifications on the car its necessary to get a good breather system and OCC install on the car.

In our testing we found that the breather side of the OCC system was more problematic than the PCV side. When driven hard under track conditions we documented oil getting pushed out of the breather side. Oil getting sucking into the turbo and deposits throughout the whole intercooler system will cause all sorts of performance restrictions and power limitations. If you are going to get an oil catch can and only have the funds for one, get one for the breather side."

So does this mean that this inexpensive option from Pierce is only for the PCV and not breather side? Or is it for either? PROSPORT Billet Aluminum Catchcan - Pierce Motorsports

Also how does this affect choice of intake? I'm assuming the breather side is the one going into the intake so does that mean I should try to match an intake with specific catch can, or just change out hoses as needed to fit whatever intake I go with? Any good reasonably priced intake/catch can combos out there you'd recommend?

Thanks in advance!
 

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In our Kia Forte, the Catch Can we had filter the PCV side caught WAAAAYYYY more than the breather side. I'm sure anyone here with our catch can kits would tell you this.

To answer your question, you can stick any catch can on any of those lines. It's just an air/oil separator.
If you haven't bought an intake yet, you just need to get the correct plumbing to hook to all of the components specific to your engine.

We make a single and a dual can kit, to filter one, or both of those systems (breather and PCV).

If you want to see how they hook up, click on the instructions from this list:

Support

Hope this helps :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Which ever one you get make sure to put a check valve in before the catch can to the pcv. I recommend just a breather on the intake side.
Ya, I definitely heard about the check valve for the PCV side, and thanks for all of your input on all the other topics as well... so you literally mean just one of those little filters instead of a catch can for the breather side? I remember you discussing that, does it splatter oil around or at least easy to clean and how often? So then catch catch can w/check valve for PCV side and filter only for breather side is what you recommend... got all your scattered info from other posts down to that now that I finally understand it more. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
In our Kia Forte, the Catch Can we had filter the PCV side caught WAAAAYYYY more than the breather side. I'm sure anyone here with our catch can kits would tell you this.

To answer your question, you can stick any catch can on any of those lines. It's just an air/oil separator.
If you haven't bought an intake yet, you just need to get the correct plumbing to hook to all of the components specific to your engine.

We make a single and a dual can kit, to filter one, or both of those systems (breather and PCV).

If you want to see how they hook up, click on the instructions from this list:

Support

Hope this helps :)
Thanks for the info, I respect both you guys and Tork, but as I'm hearing more and more how the PCV side is more troublesome, I think in this case they are flat out wrong... I will definitely be considering the options from you guys, as I do with all my Forte purchases, I'm just not sure I can afford such a beautiful premium setup you guys have in this area, but we'll see! :)
 

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I just have hose's attached to each port on the valve cover run down to the ground 1950's style. My way is zero garbage back in to the motor in any way shape or form, that's what I wanted. Yes it leaks a little but I'm going to get a 3 port breather to take care of that. You can do a catch can on the pcv side w a check valve before the catch can. Get a catch can with some type of system to trap as much of that garbage as possible. Then on the intake side just get a cheap ebay catch can that's empty inside and attach a little pod filter on one port and run the valve cover port to the other port on the can.
 

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Oh well... I will be sparking discussion again and looking for a good evidence/proof.

So, the setup we have is like that:

On the TB/PCV side - catch can with a one way valve. When in boost no air goes to the can/engine crankcase. Correct so far?

On the breather - can collecting oil from vapors going INTO the intake, so from the crankcase. Right?


Now a few situations.
1.
Under WOT - lots of blow by and lots of pressure from boost.
Nothing will pass OCC on the PCV and the valve will close (higher pressure on the boost than inside the case). No reverse flow. Works good.
On the breather - any blow by will be stopped by the can and only clean air will go.
All fine.

2.
Rolling, steady pace.
Little boost - may or may not close the valve, some vacuum, some blow by - overall system works fine.

3.
Coasting. Engine braking.
On the PCV side - vacuum, valve opens, we suck in air from the crankcase. There is no blow by because fuel is off, throttle closed. Hence, we create "decreased pressure", vacuum, in the case.
Therefore, breather port will allow air in. It must allow air in.
And because of that we get REVERSE flow. We are sucking in on the "inlet" line in the OCC.


Basically - breather allows for air flow both ways.


So, correct me where I am wrong...
 

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Oh well... I will be sparking discussion again and looking for a good evidence/proof.

So, the setup we have is like that:

On the TB/PCV side - catch can with a one way valve. When in boost no air goes to the can/engine crankcase. Correct so far?

On the breather - can collecting oil from vapors going INTO the intake, so from the crankcase. Right?


Now a few situations.
1.
Under WOT - lots of blow by and lots of pressure from boost.
Nothing will pass OCC on the PCV and the valve will close (higher pressure on the boost than inside the case). No reverse flow. Works good.
On the breather - any blow by will be stopped by the can and only clean air will go.
All fine.

2.
Rolling, steady pace.
Little boost - may or may not close the valve, some vacuum, some blow by - overall system works fine.

3.
Coasting. Engine braking.
On the PCV side - vacuum, valve opens, we suck in air from the crankcase. There is no blow by because fuel is off, throttle closed. Hence, we create "decreased pressure", vacuum, in the case.
Therefore, breather port will allow air in. It must allow air in.
And because of that we get REVERSE flow. We are sucking in on the "inlet" line in the OCC.


Basically - breather allows for air flow both ways.


So, correct me where I am wrong...
You got it bro. Just make sure on the breather side you either vent it to the road, or have a large enough can that you can dump your blowby easily.
From the VT side there were guys that just vented it and ended up with an oily mess on their valve covers. There aslo were a couple reports of small fires from blow by pooling/ignition.

The PCV will accumulate more crap if you use any ethanol enriched pump gas. No eth means no crap. You also will accumulate more if you have long OCC lines and the stuff flowing through cools down. If it stays hot its suspended, if it cools it makes greasy condensation.

Not to scare you, BUT there were a few guys with nice fancy OCC lines. Long ones. The stuff filled up the PCV OCC in winter, (both examples I know of were in Canada). The can froze, they blew out their rear main seals from the blocked PCV side. ***This should show you how important this crank case ventilation system is.
 

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Thanks for the info, I respect both you guys and Tork, but as I'm hearing more and more how the PCV side is more troublesome, I think in this case they are flat out wrong... I will definitely be considering the options from you guys, as I do with all my Forte purchases, I'm just not sure I can afford such a beautiful premium setup you guys have in this area, but we'll see! :)
I can make the kits with regular fuel hose and not SS lines for considerably less if you're interested :)
Our kits include one-way check valves for the PCV side.

Oh well... I will be sparking discussion again and looking for a good evidence/proof.

So, the setup we have is like that:

On the TB/PCV side - catch can with a one way valve. When in boost no air goes to the can/engine crankcase. Correct so far?

On the breather - can collecting oil from vapors going INTO the intake, so from the crankcase. Right?


Now a few situations.
1.
Under WOT - lots of blow by and lots of pressure from boost.
Nothing will pass OCC on the PCV and the valve will close (higher pressure on the boost than inside the case). No reverse flow. Works good.
On the breather - any blow by will be stopped by the can and only clean air will go.
All fine.

2.
Rolling, steady pace.
Little boost - may or may not close the valve, some vacuum, some blow by - overall system works fine.

3.
Coasting. Engine braking.
On the PCV side - vacuum, valve opens, we suck in air from the crankcase. There is no blow by because fuel is off, throttle closed. Hence, we create "decreased pressure", vacuum, in the case.
Therefore, breather port will allow air in. It must allow air in.
And because of that we get REVERSE flow. We are sucking in on the "inlet" line in the OCC.


Basically - breather allows for air flow both ways.


So, correct me where I am wrong...
You are right on #1 and most on #2 lol
Our check valves we include in our kits have a very soft spring in there. They switch and any instance of pressure change from vacuum to positive pressure.

As for #3, my prof opinion would be if the breather is hooked up to an intake system, the vacuum present in the intake system generated from the engine being in vacuum and the turbocharger direction of rotation, the breather system will never flow towards the engine.

If the breather is vented to atmosphere, air would only flow back into the engine when the vacuum forces present in the combustion chamber make the pressure inside the crankcase less than atmos...hence flow in that direction. But, you have a filter there so nothing gets in the engine, and once you're back driving (when there are pressures generated from combustion) the pressure in the crankcase will make it's way out of the breather.
 

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One thing to mention I didnt see anyone point out is the difference between a baffled and non-baffled system. The can you linked from Pierce appears to be just an empty can (least expensive) with no system to physically catch or stop blow-by particles. I would recommend a baffled can system for a more effective OCC system, not just a reservoir to hold blow by.

If you're running on a budget the ADD W1 cans are the best bang for your buck, they are a smaller sized baffled can but get the job done. I would recommend using different lines than come with the kit.
https://www.k5optimastore.com/products/add-w1-v2-catch-cans

Another option is the Mishimoto cans, a lot higher quality and a larger capacity can. If you're looking to the spend a little more this is the can for you
https://www.k5optimastore.com/products/mishimoto-baffled-oil-catch-can
 

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Guys, baffled or not. On the breather side air must go both ways (case #3).

It will vent the case if system is in vacuum (coasting), because PCV is closed in addition to the check flow valve and the air for the breather comes from the intake.
But when in pressure (WOT for the best example) blow by gases go rather to the air intake (breather) side than the PCV as PCV is under boost. Hence, streaming gases with oil. So catch can is stopping it.


And just additional thought.
Maybe I would not worry about this side much, because I only want clean air to come (vent) into the intake to keep the turbine clean. I do not care about back flow as even if any oil collected there, it will go back to the engine. It came from the engine and it will go back there. Simple as that. Contaminated? Not really... maybe a bit wet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I can make the kits with regular fuel hose and not SS lines for considerably less if you're interested :)
Our kits include one-way check valves for the PCV side.



You are right on #1 and most on #2 lol
Our check valves we include in our kits have a very soft spring in there. They switch and any instance of pressure change from vacuum to positive pressure.

As for #3, my prof opinion would be if the breather is hooked up to an intake system, the vacuum present in the intake system generated from the engine being in vacuum and the turbocharger direction of rotation, the breather system will never flow towards the engine.

If the breather is vented to atmosphere, air would only flow back into the engine when the vacuum forces present in the combustion chamber make the pressure inside the crankcase less than atmos...hence flow in that direction. But, you have a filter there so nothing gets in the engine, and once you're back driving (when there are pressures generated from combustion) the pressure in the crankcase will make it's way out of the breather.
OK, so I'm only slightly less confused now... So it sounds like both sides can have their issues, but I'm mainly interesting in keeping gunk out of the intake, so that would be breather side, right? If I don't do PCV side, then gunk just drains back to the crankcase oil? So I could in theory just keep my oil changed regularly and be fine there?
 

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I'm running an ADD W1 on the PCV side, and on the breather side I'm running a cheap eBay one without a filter (other outlet is just empty) with the intake port capped.

ADD W1 does an okay job at catching the crud, I've added some SS scrubbers in the body of the can as well as the small baffling cubby.

After 6000 kms my breather side has caught barely anything (unless it's all escaping and coating the engine bay).

Edit: wow after reading some of these other posts I wasn't aware that the breather side can actually suck air back in. I definitely need to get a filter on the breather side. Currently I just have one line from the valve cover to the inlet on the can. On the outlet I just have a filter-less fitting.
 

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OK, so I'm only slightly less confused now... So it sounds like both sides can have their issues, but I'm mainly interesting in keeping gunk out of the intake, so that would be breather side, right? If I don't do PCV side, then gunk just drains back to the crankcase oil? So I could in theory just keep my oil changed regularly and be fine there?
Yes and No.

Breather will keep the air intake lines clean. But the PCV side will allow gunk buildup on the intake valves.
You see, some claim it is OK and car will drive just fine.
I bet that for most of folks, driving the car as a car should be driven - most of the time normal speeds, sometimes a bit harder, rarely WOT... it will make no difference. And if any - it will be minimal for the live of the engine/car. I would suspect the problems might start pilling up at 150k miles with poor maintenance. I highly doubt KIA/Hyundai made a bad design. And if they did - we are covered for 100k miles anyway.

So unless you are pushing it hard many times on very hot weather - not much of oil will ll get there.

And from my experience using MT for +10k miles of pushing the car several times, but most of the time normal, but quite often WOT at lower RPM - some oil did go into the intake, most likely depositing a bit on the turbine, but all of it was stopped in the resonator. Nothing I could find past it. Hence, I would say the intercooler was clean. Car had 20k miles when I sold it and the resonator delete I removed just before then (after about 5k miles on it) had barely any oil.


Yes, I am going to put the catch cans. I just need to find a way to have the shortest lines possible.
lol
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
One thing to mention I didnt see anyone point out is the difference between a baffled and non-baffled system. The can you linked from Pierce appears to be just an empty can (least expensive) with no system to physically catch or stop blow-by particles. I would recommend a baffled can system for a more effective OCC system, not just a reservoir to hold blow by.

If you're running on a budget the ADD W1 cans are the best bang for your buck, they are a smaller sized baffled can but get the job done. I would recommend using different lines than come with the kit.
https://www.k5optimastore.com/products/add-w1-v2-catch-cans

Another option is the Mishimoto cans, a lot higher quality and a larger capacity can. If you're looking to the spend a little more this is the can for you
https://www.k5optimastore.com/products/mishimoto-baffled-oil-catch-can
Thank Paul... I'm looking at the ADD W1, it seems like it just needs "1.25 ft of 3/8" oil cooler hose" to replace the main line included? And I would need just that one for the breather side to keep stuff out of my intake? Do I need the "vehicle specific bracket" for a F5? If I don't do PCV side then stuff drains back to the crankcase oil?
 

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Thank Paul... I'm looking at the ADD W1, it seems like it just needs "1.25 ft of 3/8" oil cooler hose" to replace the main line included? And I would need just that one for the breather side to keep stuff out of my intake? Do I need the "vehicle specific bracket" for a F5? If I don't do PCV side then stuff drains back to the crankcase oil?
First look around where you want to put them to have easy access and route the lines. I found it a tad hard to locate the can with easy access, yet keeping the lines to minimum. Some advised to have the cans on the passenger strut tower. That makes the lines very long... and if you are in cold climates - well, freezing water in the lines is ensured.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yes and No.

Breather will keep the air intake lines clean. But the PCV side will allow gunk buildup on the intake valves.

You see, some claim it is OK and car will drive just fine.
I bet that for most of folks, driving the car as a car should be driven - most of the time normal speeds, sometimes a bit harder, rarely WOT... it will make no difference. And if any - it will be minimal for the live of the engine/car. I would suspect the problems might start pilling up at 150k miles with poor maintenance. I highly doubt KIA/Hyundai made a bad design. And if they did - we are covered for 100k miles anyway.

So unless you are pushing it hard many times on very hot weather - not much of oil will ll get there.

And from my experience using MT for +10k miles of pushing the car several times, but most of the time normal, but quite often WOT at lower RPM - some oil did go into the intake, most likely depositing a bit on the turbine, but all of it was stopped in the resonator. Nothing I could find past it. Hence, I would say the intercooler was clean. Car had 20k miles when I sold it and the resonator delete I removed just before then (after about 5k miles on it) had barely any oil.


Yes, I am going to put the catch cans. I just need to find a way to have the shortest lines possible.
lol
I think that this reply, and especially the sentence I put in bold, summarize what I need to know... I do go WOT a bit but not all the time, I'm thinking I should at least do the breather side as I really hate gunk in my intake and IC system. Especially with a res delete very early on (no baffling now to catch oil) that will probably start affecting performance before the PCV side starts creating enough intake valve problems to make a real difference. Coming from a GDI-T before, I accept that I will probably need a carbon cleaning at 100k, if I even keep the car that long, and I believe with newer timing techniques since that last '06 DI turbo engine they have reduced intake deposits a decent amount... Now i wonder how much TUNES could affect that, if at all... hmmm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
First look around where you want to put them to have easy access and route the lines. I found it a tad hard to locate the can with easy access, yet keeping the lines to minimum. Some advised to have the cans on the passenger strut tower. That makes the lines very long... and if you are in cold climates - well, freezing water in the lines is ensured.
So if I want to do breather side and I live in a fairly mild climate and garaged over night, would it be easiest to go a bit longer hoses then? Does the ADD W1 require you to unscrew the can to empty it?
 

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I mounted my can for the breather side on the frame directly below the stock air box... Right in front of the battery.

I'm only running the line from the valve cover to the can and it's about 2 feet long.

And yes the ADD W1 can requires you to unscrew it to empty. But if you're using it on the breather side you will likely never have to empty it lol.

PCV side I mounted on passenger side strut tower, hoses are longer but I live in Ottawa (-20 average winters down to -30). Nothing ever froze in the can nor in the lines.
 

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Thank Paul... I'm looking at the ADD W1, it seems like it just needs "1.25 ft of 3/8" oil cooler hose" to replace the main line included? And I would need just that one for the breather side to keep stuff out of my intake? Do I need the "vehicle specific bracket" for a F5? If I don't do PCV side then stuff drains back to the crankcase oil?
We mostly see people buying them for the PCV side as their priority and you usually see more collect on that side as well from going into the engine. The bracket we make only works for the Optima and Sonata and we do not have one for the Forte at this time. You will want to mount yours in a way that you have decent access to unscrew it to empty it. The Forte engine bay is a lot harder to work in than the Optima/Sonata which makes the smaller sized can a little easier to work with
 
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