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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is this normal if when I start the engine in the morning, there is black smoke from the exhaust? Its for about 30 second and then the smoke go back to white.

Thank you guys for hints.
 

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That may be quite a problem. Black smoke is unburned fuel, white smoke can be water in the combustion chamber - possibly cracked block. Get feedback from the whiz kids on the KIA engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That may be quite a problem. Black smoke is unburned fuel, white smoke can be water in the combustion chamber - possibly cracked block. Get feedback from the whiz kids on the KIA engine.
well white smoke is normal because its under 0 degre here but black smoke isnt normal I guess
 

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I love this "zero degrees"... without knowledge of location we can argue if at -18 C black smoke on cold start is ok, or if 32 F is cold enough...

Black smoke is OK as long as it does not last too long. Too long means the colder the longer.
Black smoke is sooth, unburned fuel, and other crap. If it was oil it would be more blueish.

Story behind - those engines are set to be rich. When starting the engine, on cold, you always go into rich. So here it is doubled :).
In addition, the oxygen sensors are not active yet, causing the engine going into even richer conditions. When they (sensors) get hot enough (about 10-40 seconds) they will start adjusting fuel ratio. Hence, smoke is white.


Smoke: define smoke... as smoke actually is small particles suspended in gas. Black smoke: sooth. White smoke: some ashes.
The white smoke you are referring to is nothing more but condensing moisture. Water coming from burning petrol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
well cold as -15 celcius. I know white smoke is condensing moisture but black to white I just meant the black smoke was gone about 15 -30 seconds after start up.

The black smoke is like diesel truck.
 

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Charles is from Quebec, so it's cold there this time of year.

It's the same temperature here in Ottawa and never have I noticed black smoke out the exhaust. That's unburnt fuel.

I know that these cars run rich on cold starts, but your symptoms seem to be to the extreme if you're comparing it to a diesel rolling coal. I haven't heard of anyone elses Forte (or Veloster for that matter) dump black smoke out the exhaust. How much are we actually talking here?

Like... a "little" amount of smoke?

Or like... "Volkswagen" amount of smoke?

 

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How about recording it? Take a nice video of the startup.

I DO see black smoke, but again, that is only short lasting and it has this distinct smell of no catalyst/rich mixture.
So with a good video we could debate.

Also, how old is the car?

Another thing I can think of is the soot that rests in your exhaust. All the freckles we have on the rear bumper and vicinity - maybe during the startup they get released... not that I noticed that in mine.

Per temperature.
Charles did not list his location, so I could not assume 0 degrees is in F or in C... eventually in Kelvin scale, but at that point he would not be able to start the car, I am afraid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Not as black as a diesel and its not opaque but it smell like utter shit.

Kind of a smell of electrical wiring burning . The black smoke comes out whenever the car has been sitting for an extended period of time (8 hours+), it doesn't matter if its morning or not.

I hope its not valve seal leak.
 

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Not as black as a diesel and its not opaque but it smell like utter shit.

Kind of a smell of electrical wiring burning . The black smoke comes out whenever the car has been sitting for an extended period of time (8 hours+), it doesn't matter if its morning or not.

I hope its not valve seal leak.
It's true, I don't have a lot of cold weather experience, it's colder in Kannadah than California, but how long has your car been doing this? Something sudden? In your gas in Kannadah, do you have those so called "oxygenates" or winter blends or something like that?
 

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Ive ran 100s of gdi engines in cold weather starts, example: 0 to -20 below and every single one of them runs rich with black smoke. If they didn't then something would be wrong. If its only for the first little bit youll be fine its completely normal. Like I said all these gdi's do it especially if they have been sitting for a day or two.

The one thing I may add if these engines sit for a weeks and its been snowing and its really cold ect, they will be black puffin for a minute or more then rev up the gas you'll shoot some vw smoke. "Not that I recommend that" But I gotta try everything once. My two cents from experience of northern Minnesota.
 
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I wanted to add something here.

It runs so rich on cold (the colder, the richer) that it triggers misfire. That happened a few times at about -20 C. It is not detectable by ECU, but I can feel engine almost like sputtering, not really happy to run. Once oxygen sensor kicks in, it gets smooth.

Also, the cold start is very smelly. I mean really bad. If you park in garage then you will know. You basically have 10 seconds from the time you start the car to the moment you should leave, otherwise it will start puffing.
The 10 seconds comes from the time which is needed to fill the exhaust with fumes from the engine and start spitting them through the end of the pipe.


By the way.

HOW do you know it is black smoke? I mean, when you start the car you are IN the car, right? :) Or you ran outside to see it? lol

Anyway, all normal... do not worry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well its my girlfriend who told me that there was black smoke on startup so I dont know for how long.

Well PLP That the joy of push button. I put one feet on my brake and push the button and then rush for the back

And yes when its minus 10 or more the engine is misfiring like a bitch for 1-2 seconds its knocking and then it start.
 

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I agree with plp. But I forgot to mention with my car and maybe something is wrong but it isn't throwing any codes so idk but, Mine sounds like it misses when its a cold start like pop pop then raises the idle and clears for a second and repeats this several times. I don't even want to listen to it anymore so I just start it and go back inside. So I'm just saying with these new cars they are not perfect they will do some random stuff and IMO they will never be perfect.

I understand people just checking to make sure that everything is alright nothing wrong with that. I'm just going with these GDI's are rather funny I was all worried about my car when I first got it now not so much, I let her kinda miss or whatever it thinks its doing. But I maintain it treat it right and the car runs fine but wow it does some weird sounds and behaviors in the cold.

Note, you should see these cars when you start them with -30F and wind chill plus. The car gets all sorts of pissed. But mine has been great and hasn't had any codes despite the weird engine quirks. Sorry to be a bit off topic but it happened... Peace.
 
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I agree with plp. But I forgot to mention with my car and maybe something is wrong but it isn't throwing any codes so idk but, Mine sounds like it misses when its a cold start like pop pop then raises the idle and clears for a second and repeats this several times.
Just an idea... what grade of petrol do you use?
You see, when on summer I was testing different grades, I was having more starting issues when on grades 91 and 93. It was summer, so much warmer, but when the temperature dropped to say +10 C overnight, morning start would be very rough.
It all went away, OK, got much better, when I returned to 89 or 87.

Note, you should see these cars when you start them with -30F and wind chill plus.
Cars do not feel wind chill :)

But, so far I cannot complain on starts. Hot or cold.
-20 C and it takes maybe half second longer to start, but it does it. No hiccups, nothing very bad. Revs are almost always same - about 2000 rpm and then drops to 1200-1500 depending how cold it was.

Well its my girlfriend who told me that there was black smoke on startup so I dont know for how long.
So have her to start the car and see the smoke. I bet it is just fine.

And pleas add location to your profile. Sometimes it helps...
 

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I agree with plp. But I forgot to mention with my car and maybe something is wrong but it isn't throwing any codes so idk but, Mine sounds like it misses when its a cold start like pop pop then raises the idle and clears for a second and repeats this several times. I don't even want to listen to it anymore so I just start it and go back inside. So I'm just saying with these new cars they are not perfect they will do some random stuff and IMO they will never be perfect.

Note, you should see these cars when you start them with -30F and wind chill plus. The car gets all sorts of pissed. But mine has been great and hasn't had any codes despite the weird engine quirks. Sorry to be a bit off topic but it happened... Peace.
Just yesterday someone on FB posted a video of their car on a cold start, easily being able to hear the misfires out the exhaust. Totally normal, my car has always done it.

Coldest I started my car was -29 Celsius (-50 with windchill but as PLP said, cars don't feel it haha).

The car was gonna stall if I took my foot of the clutch. Had to hold it for about 15 secs.

These things hate the cold.
 

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Sorry I'm having trouble with my computer so I cant quote but to answer PLP.

Using 87 top tier which is the "brand" of fuel the book recommends

And cars don't feel windchill? I would argue that till death. Whether its my arrogance or ignorance I fully believe that windchill effects cars start up. Example: I lived on a lake west wind would come off there all sorts strong. If my truck was facing anywhere near the lake and a windy cold day it would be a lot harder to turn over vs me parking the nose by a wind break like the side of the garage. Again I don't want to argue but I don't think there is really anything you can say that would say otherwise change my mind.

However PLP I will ask you why would windchill not affect a vehicle cold start temp? Or is it that ambient temp is it, and wind will cool it down faster but not cool further??
 

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The car was gonna stall if I took my foot of the clutch. Had to hold it for about 15 secs.

These things hate the cold.
Never had this happen... clutch would not make any difference, except a bit of engine speed drop and the "crawling" in neutral...

And cars don't feel windchill? I would argue that till death. Whether its my arrogance or ignorance I fully believe that windchill effects cars start up. Example: I lived on a lake west wind would come off there all sorts strong. If my truck was facing anywhere near the lake and a windy cold day it would be a lot harder to turn over vs me parking the nose by a wind break like the side of the garage.
That is bizarre, I agree.

CrazyFritter;43697However PLP I will ask you why would windchill not affect a vehicle cold start temp? Or is it that ambient temp is it said:
Windchill is something that deals with humidity, wind speed, and ambient temperature. I do not remember the exact equation, I took the courses a while ago. But the idea is that the human body (any living creature, for that matter) will "feel" the ambient temperature slightly different depending on the 3 conditions I just listed. There is also a term of a cold/wet globe, or wet thermometer. It is a similar idea, a bit simpler, and serves a different purpose, yet in very simplified way may tell you how cold it feels.

So in short.
Your body will feel cooler when you have air moving around it, right? Now, the colder the air the colder it will feel. The faster the wind, the colder it feels. Add moist air on cold day and it will feel even colder. Moving air cools down your skin. Moist air will transfer the heat even faster (on cold days). On hot days, I mean, very hot, moist air will cause you to sweat sooner and feel hotter (this one is a bit confusing, though).
However, your car reaches temperature of the ambient air. It does not care if air is steady or moving very fast. It cares, however, on humidity as very humid air may mess up with ignition system and cause problems with firing up. Yet, it is not related to the wind chill.

And why? Because it is not warm. It is a piece of metal/plastic that reaches ambient temperature.
Sure, it will take more time to warm up the engine when facing the wind vs no wind, but this is related to the fact how quickly the heat is being dissipated to the air.
Another way of looking on it is a thermometer. On a windy day - keep it exposed to wind. Note the temperature. Then, put some buffers that will stop or at least slow down the wind and not the temperature. It will be exactly same.
 
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I was using 91 until my last refuel. Now I'm using standard 87
Sorry to hijack your thread. Anyways depending on what brand of gas you use could matter too. I used mobile gas and my car was not the same car anymore and fuel economy dropped by about 3mpg. I can back that up too because my mother has an optima and was using murphy gas and she switched to quick trip gas (toptier) and her mpg improved by about 4mpg.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sorry to hijack your thread. Anyways depending on what brand of gas you use could matter too. I used mobile gas and my car was not the same car anymore and fuel economy dropped by about 3mpg. I can back that up too because my mother has an optima and was using murphy gas and she switched to quick trip gas (toptier) and her mpg improved by about 4mpg.
You are not hijacking anything

Im using Costco Wholesale or Shell
 
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