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Lower Engine Mount Development

This is a discussion on Lower Engine Mount Development within the 6th Element Engineering forums, part of the Vendors category; In preparation of making a new engine mount design, I am modeling and analyzing the factory engine mount. I have performed a few FEA (finite ...

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Thread: Lower Engine Mount Development

  1. #1
    Supporting Vendor 6thElementEngineering's Avatar
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    Lower Engine Mount Development

    In preparation of making a new engine mount design, I am modeling and analyzing the factory engine mount.



    I have performed a few FEA (finite element analysis) evaluations of the mount based on different directions of applied load and applied materials.
    While I myself do not have the original design documentation for the mount itself, my rough reverse engineered interpretation has given me a good idea how this mount behaves under certain loading conditions.

    Here is an example of the different types of conditions I'm evalustaing. Mount is assumed fixed at the subframe face connection, and a 300 lb*f load applied through the bolt sleeve.



    As far as I can tell, this is what we are looking at with the factory mount:
    - Investment cast aluminum alloy - not 100% on this, although the surface finish and clean edges and inside radii make it seem that way
    - not sure on the alloy, I have access to a Niton metal analysis gun and I'd like to see what it's made of
    - still trying to nail down bushing rubber type and durometer. I should just buy a durometer tester I won't look too much into this though as I am researching bushings to use right now.

    If we assume one of the cheapest and weakest alloys was used, the aluminum structure of the mount still has a good factor of safety at our 300 lb*f load.
    I will be designing our new mount with much higher loads in the computer, and will also have a large factor of safety built in.

    Right now, expect a billet aluminum body with high quality bushings. The mount will also have some adjustability for axle alignment.

    I will update this thread as things progress.
    6th Element Engineering - Premier Kia/Hyundai Performance
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    Senior Member precrack's Avatar
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    Hey Uhm dumb question but what's the point of this?

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    Supporting Vendor 6thElementEngineering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by precrack View Post
    Hey Uhm dumb question but what's the point of this?
    I am designing a new engine mount that will help put more power to the ground. To have a better understanding of what I should design around I am evaluating the factory mount, just like I evaluated the factory intake system.
    Long story short, factory motor mounts are designed to safely hold the drivetrain in place while transferring as little noise and vibration from the drivetrain as possible.

    When you have a soft mount that dampens all the vibrations, the trade off is deflection. Too much deflection under sudden force (read: launching, shifting gears fast) and you get things like wheel hop and a rather sloppy feeling when the next gear is engaged.

    Most of the time, the factory mount can be upgraded in a couple different ways:

    - replace the dampeners in the mount (currently some members have replaced the rubber in this mount with stiffer urethane inserts)
    - Redesign a new mount, that uses stiffer dampening and possibly relocates the dampeners to an optimized location
    - In our case, the mount is located in a placed where if we make it adjustable in a certain way, it can have the ability to keep our cv axles straight, resulting in better launches and gear engagement.

    Quote Originally Posted by itsjustme View Post
    This would be for those that don't want to lose engine torque by wasting it in the engine compartment by limiting engine movement and forcing the torque to go to the wheels.

    To add to that how long do you thing the factory mount will last once it starts seeing 250+ WHP vs the 165-175 WHP we have stock? I would say it would fail rather quickly. IMHO
    It's hard to say since I do not know exactly what aluminum is used. Stresses from the model are about 8-10% of the yield strength of some of the casting aluminum alloy specs i found.
    With that, it's a rough estimate but fatigue failure with that would take millions of cycles with full load on the aluminum.

    I would say the rubber would break down far before that just to do with climate conditions. You'd have rotted and cracked rubber portions of the factory mount far before the aluminum fails.
    Now, replace the factory rubber with the polyurethane inserts I've seen for the mount, and the stresses through the mount will increase due to the reduced deflection of the bushings. Failure due to fatigue would still take a really long time, and my guess would be longer than the life of the car anyway.

    Now if we double the factory output, that's a different story. I will be designing my new mount with this in mind.
    CDN CEE'D GT likes this.
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    2014 Koup SX - Graphite Steel/6-Speed
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    Shifter Bushings
    Shifter Cable Bushings
    Resonator Delete Pipe
    Radiator Cap Cover
    Dual Oil Catch Can Kit
    Front Mount Intercooler Kit
    MAX FLOW Fuel Pump/Line Kit

    Currently prototyping: Downpipe, OEM Intercooler Hot Pipe Kit

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    Senior Member honhon's Avatar
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    I was thinking about the lower mount when i was installing my green rev motorsports bushings tonight...

    I would love to see a "progressive" type mount... where it can soak up the idle vibrations, but then as soon as the motor starts twisting, the more it twists the firmer the mount gets...

    Rev motorsports has a green set of bushings and a "race" red set... i wonder if this can be somewhat acheived by mixing a red and green one together...?

    but i do like the idea of the progressive style, kinda best of both worlds



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    Here is a preview of my first design. Dual bushings with adjustment feature.

    I am still running all the numbers for the design, and will evaluate the model through different conditions for applicable forces.
    I will have an assembly 3D printed for fitment testing if the numbers and the stress results come out favorable.

    Design may or may not change much depending on results. Please keep that in mind, this might go through some revisions.

    6th Element Engineering - Premier Kia/Hyundai Performance
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    email us: [email protected]
    2014 Koup SX - Graphite Steel/6-Speed
    6th Element Engineering Modifications:
    Cold Air Intake
    Lower Engine Mount
    Shifter Bushings
    Shifter Cable Bushings
    Resonator Delete Pipe
    Radiator Cap Cover
    Dual Oil Catch Can Kit
    Front Mount Intercooler Kit
    MAX FLOW Fuel Pump/Line Kit

    Currently prototyping: Downpipe, OEM Intercooler Hot Pipe Kit

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    Senior Member honhon's Avatar
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    Looks pretty cool. What would the need be for adjusting length?




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    Supporting Vendor 6thElementEngineering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honhon View Post
    Looks pretty cool. What would the need be for adjusting length?
    We are lucky that this mount (due to the way it connects with the transmission and mounting location) that if you make it longer or shorter, the result is adjustment of axle angle between the transmission and wheel hubs.

    The straighter the axles are, the easier it is to get power to the ground.
    6th Element Engineering - Premier Kia/Hyundai Performance
    www.sxthelement.com
    email us: [email protected]
    2014 Koup SX - Graphite Steel/6-Speed
    6th Element Engineering Modifications:
    Cold Air Intake
    Lower Engine Mount
    Shifter Bushings
    Shifter Cable Bushings
    Resonator Delete Pipe
    Radiator Cap Cover
    Dual Oil Catch Can Kit
    Front Mount Intercooler Kit
    MAX FLOW Fuel Pump/Line Kit

    Currently prototyping: Downpipe, OEM Intercooler Hot Pipe Kit

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    Sign me up! I want one!
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    Supporting Vendor 6thElementEngineering's Avatar
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    3D printed prototype just finished.

    I am going to install tomorrow and take some notes. Will update on the design in the next couple days.

    6th Element Engineering - Premier Kia/Hyundai Performance
    www.sxthelement.com
    email us: [email protected]
    2014 Koup SX - Graphite Steel/6-Speed
    6th Element Engineering Modifications:
    Cold Air Intake
    Lower Engine Mount
    Shifter Bushings
    Shifter Cable Bushings
    Resonator Delete Pipe
    Radiator Cap Cover
    Dual Oil Catch Can Kit
    Front Mount Intercooler Kit
    MAX FLOW Fuel Pump/Line Kit

    Currently prototyping: Downpipe, OEM Intercooler Hot Pipe Kit

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    Wow that is badass! What is the price point going to be on this?
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