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Acceleration problems (RaceChip edition)

This is a discussion on Acceleration problems (RaceChip edition) within the Kia Forte Turbo Performance forums, part of the Kia Forte Turbo Garage category; Let's make it clear here - Injen X-Pedal Pro will not change anything in your car. It will only alter how the signal is sent ...

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Thread: Acceleration problems (RaceChip edition)

  1. #31
    PLP
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    Let's make it clear here - Injen X-Pedal Pro will not change anything in your car. It will only alter how the signal is sent between your foot and ECU. The input will not be so linear, it might be a steep curve, or even flatter than it is now.

    However, there is no making your car faster or more responsive.
    And frankly, if I need to spend 150+ on a device that will act on my behalf by pushing the gas pedal a bit further - I will do it myself.

    I have first hand experience with such thing called Go-Pedal.
    It was a waste of money, if you ask me. What previously was 30% throttle, now is 50%, what previously was 50% now was 90%, what was 90, now is still 90. Power was same. The car just was more jumpy, but did not feel faster or better in any way.



    One more comment on those XLRs and such.

    Do you know this concept - if you know a little of everything, you know nothing - or similar - if it works on everything, it does not work well?

    So that is the same with all these pseudo ECU cheater chips. Look on the list of compatible cars. They cover many platforms. Not just one or two, but dozens.
    Ask any tuner how much time it takes to get a good tune for one car. Sure, once it is done it is much easier to adapt it for another one.

    So what I am saying is that - all the problems you face now, all the issues you need to solve, all the time you spend on it - wouldn't it be better to invest the time and money into a good tune and actually have the ability to troubleshoot with the tuner who knows what he/she is doing?

    Just my two cents...



    Only for comparison - my cost breakdown.
    Spare ECU (somewhere over 200), tune about 500, spark plugs 120, filter 50.
    Total around 900.
    I chose Sxth based on my location.

    Sxth was great with response time (24 hrs or less through email) and any troubleshooting.
    Never had stuttering, CEL, or any major issues. Never had to dial it down.
    After initial "learning" process, the car was a monster.

    Despite the tune, with civil driving I was still getting same MPG, maybe a bit better on some occasions.

    Only from time to time I would swap ECUs to get the car serviced or to put a few miles on the OEM ECU.
    Drives:
    2016 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, A/T ("cheap GTI" - surprises many drivers) - SOLD... Some OEM and aftermarket parts left after... see my FS thread in market section.
    2014 FIAT 500e (my first EV - awesome toy!!)
    2015 AUDI Q5 (for wife...)
    2016 FIAT 500X Trekking Plus AWD with Roof and Beats (for wife)

  2. #32
    Senior Member lephoenix's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone said that a pedal tuner would make it faster or more responsive. But it would change the feel. A lot, if not most, sports car makers put a button or setting in their cars to do the same thing. Only changing the pedal feel can really change the drivers experience. Who cares if you're not faster if you are having more fun.

    You have experience with these types of devices so your opinion is valuable. However, most responses from people who have these that I have read and seen (actually almost every single one) has been very positive. Perhaps the one you purchased was marketed in a misleading way. I don't know. Or perhaps the car you put it on just didn't really need it because the pedal was already set up pretty sportily from the factory.

    The sayings you referenced could be used in response to you referencing them. Meaning, just because they apply to some circumstances doesn't mean they apply to all. Altering the signal of the accelerator position sensor is very basic. Bump it up by X%. Decrease it by X%. Most of the devices offer quite a bit of adjustability so that a user can fine tune it to their liking on their platform. A simple tool can be used for a wide variety of simple tasks. Is it the best for all of those tasks? Probably not. But at the end of the day for most people it solves them just as well as a specialized tool.

    That's not to say that they devices (the Racechip and the XLR) are better than tuning. But for some people they may work better. Or at least fit their circumstances better. I know for me that tuning is a lot less likely to fit into the way that I shop and the way that my family manages finances. Even if the end cost equaled the same amount, the incremental nature of buying a product and being able to install it and get results right away rather than saving for a long time to make one big purchase or buying parts that aren't usable and saving those up for one install is more appealing. If someone handed me $1000 to spend on my car I would for sure go the route you took. I don't see that happening though.

    Along with that, people do have issues with tunes. I feel like I read that you had issues during partial throttle acceleration before yourself. Not that that is necessarily dangerous. But plenty of the changes made during tuning can be. Go ask the ecoboost world. To use the ideas from your sayings again, conventional ecu tuning, while usually the best idea, isn't always the best idea. I have written and read a lot of code in my life. Even code from very prominent technical organizations can sometimes be very hard to understand the logic the original programmer used. The nature of auto manufacturers now a days is to purposefully make that code difficult to crack. What that means on a line by line basis, I don't know. I haven't actually read any of it. But if I write some complex code and someone wants to manipulate the output, often, if not usually, I would rather them manipulate the input to alter the output rather than taking their best guess at changing the code itself. That's what decent error handling should do. Assume your users are cluelessly trying to destroy everything and build procedures to stop them before they even have your product. In fact, the idea of someone trying to alter my code (if it is not well commented) literally induces a mild nausea. This isn't 1999. Times have changed and so has code. Sometimes the simplest method is the best. Sometimes allowing the initial coders error handling to keep your engine from blowing is better than trusting even a highly reputable tuning shops.
    I am speaking generally here. I do trust Sxth. Some other tuners... not so much.

  3. #33
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    I did not claim Go-Pedal would add power - I am just saying that spending 100 or more on a thing that basically does same thing as it would be me pushing the accelerator a bit deeper is waste of money.
    Although sellers say the car will be more swiftly or whatever term they used.
    And maybe there is some fun with it - gentle push and car goes quickly, but then winter comes, or highway driving, stuck in traffic - all those improvements are annoying as it gives too much input.



    I get the idea of modifying cars. I keep looking what I can do to my Fiat now. Unfortunately this one does not need anything...
    I have made many mods (all reversible) on Forte. I was thinking of the tune for months. Honestly, it took me about 9 months to get funds and I waited for promotion period (I think it was Thanksgiving) when Sxth had some coupon codes. Just to save some money.
    I made a goal - let's try it. To make it easily reversible I had to have spare ECU.
    And I must say again - it was the best spent money.

    Would "one fits all" work same? I am afraid not.

    Yes, I did say I had some small issues. I even mentioned it above. But it never ended with a CEL. The tune still had safety built in not allowing the car to destroy the engine.
    Somehow all the problems went away after a while. It was a bit puzzling to me, but the car "adapted" to a new tune. Weird, but worked fine.



    All in all.
    I can put any fancy accessories, try some cheap LED, or even suspension parts. But when it comes to engine and transmission - well, that is something I do not want to touch with inexperienced, unrefined tune.
    It just looks to me like they are trying to use same idea for all cars to cheat the system, which in the end realises something was wrong.

    And while it is only 450 or so... so is the tune. Spare ECU adds a bit more. But spark plugs, air filter - that is something you can get time ahead as small expenses.

    I will still advocate that the best power return on money is a tune for FI engines.
    NA - not so much, though.
    Drives:
    2016 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, A/T ("cheap GTI" - surprises many drivers) - SOLD... Some OEM and aftermarket parts left after... see my FS thread in market section.
    2014 FIAT 500e (my first EV - awesome toy!!)
    2015 AUDI Q5 (for wife...)
    2016 FIAT 500X Trekking Plus AWD with Roof and Beats (for wife)

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  5. #34
    Senior Member lephoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLP View Post
    And maybe there is some fun with it - gentle push and car goes quickly, but then winter comes, or highway driving, stuck in traffic - all those improvements are annoying as it gives too much input.

    And while it is only 450 or so... so is the tune. Spare ECU adds a bit more. But spark plugs, air filter - that is something you can get time ahead as small expenses.

    I will still advocate that the best power return on money is a tune for FI engines.
    NA - not so much, though.
    A couple notes,

    1. Most of these pedal devices also have a low traction setting. Which would actually be nice during some winter scenarios. Although this could maybe be replicated in part by activating ECO mode.

    2. The cheapest Racechip is less than $300. Not a huge difference but worth noting, especially since the OP feels that the best setting for us would be 3 or 4. The cheapest model goes to setting 5.

    3. The power return from a tune on an FI engine primarily comes from an increase in boost. It now looks like the cheapest tune from Sxth is more of an NA tune. By that I mean that I don't think boost is changed. Its mostly just fueling, timing, throttle, and shift points/pressure from what I can tell. All provide positive noticeable gains I'm sure but until we get to their higher level tune we wont see large positive increases in power. Your tune may not fall into their current model.
    PLP likes this.

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    Alright, sorry about the small bit of radio silence. So essentially, yes I do believe a lesser version of RaceChip is really all we need, so I will vouch that GTS is in fact overkill for us UNLESS you do plan on modifying the aspects of your engine it affects, which looks to be just the amount of boost. Honestly though, I think if you want to play it safe though ,the XLR chip or products similar that just have better throttle response, is more than enough with just the typical mods you would do for incremental gains, such as a new intake, exhaust work, suspension/wheels/tires, etc.

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    Thanks for the response. I'm glad it's working well for you. Did you decide if you are going to keep it?
    Let us know when you get your XLR or similar device. I'm curious what your thoughts on that are.

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    I'm back with some more news. A cylinder started misfiring so I took it in and found out that the reason for the engine problems wasn't the MAP sensor but one of my spark plugs were actually cracked. Swapped to new plugs and everything is fine now (Although the place I took it to tossed the OEM NGKs in it so that may worry me somewhat in the future due to everyone recommending running the HGKs if you have any kind of modifications put in but they're working. Also, addressed the battery as well so now I can safely say, still get one of the lower versions of the chip.

  9. #38
    Senior Member lephoenix's Avatar
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    I'm disappointed to hear that happened to you. But, I am not surprised at all.

    I would think that on lower settings it wouldn't be an issue but without upgraded spark plugs I would be monitoring it for any issues. And probably checking plugs during every oil change at least.

    So this totally resolved your issue?
    You previously ran it on settings 6-7 right?

  10. #39
    Senior Member lephoenix's Avatar
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    Also, you might want to reach out to Racechip and let them know that happened. They know it happens with Stingers so they've probably already considered recommending a spark plug upgrade on the 1.6T motors as well.

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    I ran it at 6 for such little time that it probably wouldn't even factor into this. I've been on settings 3/4 for the overwhelming majority and yeah, I think I would recommend just getting new plugs to put in along with any chip.

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